D. H. Hill

[rupert822]

I think Hill did fairly well at South Mountain, considering the numbers and that he lost one of his best brigadiers close to the outset. And the story Longstreet tells about his horse getting de-legged at Antietam sure seems to indicate he had fight left in him a few days later, even if he didn't have much of a division left beyond Rodes and Anderson at that point.

 

[Yankeedave]

It wasn't the first intercepted and wouldn't be the last.

 

[MWood1841]

Does anyone else ever pause and wonder what could have been if a majority of these commanders actually half-way got along? This general hated this general and these two guys didnt get along with this guy…….. the personality clashes and negative differences in leadership styles was unfortunate for alot of these commanders.

 

[Yankeedave]

It seems like much of history, in reality, is just gossip.

 

[ccorner]

So when was it that Lee turned against Hill? and what was the reason? I've read Bridges' book and it doesn't provide a definitive answer. Thoughts?

Bungling? Really? With a hand ful of regiments he held off the Union Army for a day. Little Artillery, a vast terrain, and little cavalry intelligence. Perhaps Lee did expect more? I tire of reading Lee's mind and under estimates of McClellan. DH Hill held back the union long enough to save Lee's army. Yes, Crampton Gap was poorly managed, but then Franklin poorly exploited it. Such is war.

 

[Cycom]

My second favorite CW general after Forrest. DH Hill was a fearless commander, always leading from the front. It's no wonder his men respected him.

His greatest contribution beyond his battlefield prowess, however, was his wit. He wrote what is perhaps the greatest book on mathematics ever. A few choice excerpts:

Milk sells in the City of New York at 4 cents per quart. A milkman mixed some water with 50 gallons of milk, and sold the mixture at 3 cents per quart without sustaining any loss by the sale. How much water did he put in the milk?

In the year 1853, a number of persons in New England and New York, were sent to lunatic asylums in consequence of the Spiritual Rapping delusion. If 14 be added to the number of those who became insane, and the square root of the sum be taken, the root will be less than the number by 42. Required the number of victims.

A man in Cincinnati purchased 10,000 pounds of bad pork, at 1 cent per pound, and paid so much per pound to put it through a chemical process, by which it would appear sound, and then sold it at an advanced price, clearing $450 by the fraud. The price at which he sold the pork per pound, multiplied by the cost per pound of the chemical process, was 3 cents. Required the price which he sold it and the cost of the chemical process.


This man had no love for yankees

 

[GwilymT]

My second favorite CW general after Forrest. DH Hill was a fearless commander, always leading from the front. It's no wonder his men respected him.

His greatest contribution beyond his battlefield prowess, however, was his wit. He wrote what is perhaps the greatest book on mathematics ever. A few choice excerpts:

Milk sells in the City of New York at 4 cents per quart. A milkman mixed some water with 50 gallons of milk, and sold the mixture at 3 cents per quart without sustaining any loss by the sale. How much water did he put in the milk?

In the year 1853, a number of persons in New England and New York, were sent to lunatic asylums in consequence of the Spiritual Rapping delusion. If 14 be added to the number of those who became insane, and the square root of the sum be taken, the root will be less than the number by 42. Required the number of victims.

A man in Cincinnati purchased 10,000 pounds of bad pork, at 1 cent per pound, and paid so much per pound to put it through a chemical process, by which it would appear sound, and then sold it at an advanced price, clearing $450 by the fraud. The price at which he sold the pork per pound, multiplied by the cost per pound of the chemical process, was 3 cents. Required the price which he sold it and the cost of the chemical process.


This man had no love for yankees

Greatest book on mathematics ever is quite a stretch. A disgruntled old curmudgeon using grade school mathematics to vent vile hatred and an inability to get over losing is a more apt description of that work. Perhaps Lee saw these characteristics in the man and distanced himself from such a volatile and childish personality.

 

[jackt62]

Does anyone else ever pause and wonder what could have been if a majority of these commanders actually half-way got along? This general hated this general and these two guys didnt get along with this guy…….. the personality clashes and negative differences in leadership styles was unfortunate for alot of these commanders.

Interesting speculation, and no doubt a well oiled army organization would do better to have all its parts working together harmoniously and cooperatively. But in the real world, we know that organizational strife, whether in the military or civilian side, is more common than not. Still, the best functioning and most successful institutions are those that are not beset with those kind of problems. Both Confederate and Union armies had their share of officers and commanders that couldn't or wouldn't get along with each other. But we also have the example of valued partnerships such as Lee and Jackson, and Grant and Sherman, that were very likely decisive in carrying out their respective operations.

 

[Cycom]

Greatest book on mathematics ever is quite a stretch.

It wasn't a statement meant to be taken seriously. But if it helps, here's a /s for you.

A disgruntled old curmudgeon using grade school mathematics to vent vile hatred and an inability to get over losing is a more apt description of that work. Perhaps Lee saw these characteristics in the man and distanced himself from such a volatile and childish personality.

No offense, but Hill isn't the one that comes across as disgruntled here.

 

[Championhilz]

When I was going through the papers of General Benjamin G. Humphreys at the Mississippi Department of Archives and History, I found one letter that reads as follows:

On Picket at the Stone House
Feb. 23, 1862

Gen. Hill I send you two souldiers from the 21 Regt. Miss. Vol. who have passes who the sentinel taken at his post they hav whiskey in their possession. He demanded them to give it up they refused and insulted said sentinel & refused to show their passes to me on demand.

Sgt. C.M. Fuller
Comdg. Pickets
at Mr. Bowies

These men were brought in last night. Both very insolent, one with stripes on his arms was so to me.
D.H. Hill
Brig. Gen.

Unfortunately the document does not give the names of the soldiers, but I am willing to bet that the one with "stripes on his arms" did not have them for long after his run-in with General Hill. Sgt. C.M. Fuller who commanded the pickets was a member of Company I, 13th Mississippi Infantry.

 

[Bruce Vail]

Bungling? Really? With a hand ful of regiments he held off the Union Army for a day. Little Artillery, a vast terrain, and little cavalry intelligence. Perhaps Lee did expect more? I tire of reading Lee's mind and under estimates of McClellan. DH Hill held back the union long enough to save Lee's army. Yes, Crampton Gap was poorly managed, but then Franklin poorly exploited it. Such is war.

Bungling, yes. My interest in Hill arose from my readings on the history of the 3rd NC Infantry Regiment. The 3rd was deployed at Fox's Gap, but never "drew trigger" owing to confusion (bungling) among the Confederate officers. The Colonel commanding the 3rd, along with Hill himself, devoted some effort in the post-war era in heaping blame on Gen. Ripley for the failure to engage the enemy, and for the excessive casualties suffered by Drayton's Brigade (around 50%). Like Hill, Ripley would leave the ANV after the Maryland Campaign under somewhat cloudy circumstances.

But the best evidence of bungling is the overall casualty count. Confederate casualties of about 2,600 were actually higher than Federal casualties, despite the fact the Confederates were defending a very strong position. Normally it would be the attackers who would take the higher casualties.

 

[rpkennedy]

Bungling, yes. My interest in Hill arose from my readings on the history of the 3rd NC Infantry Regiment. The 3rd was deployed at Fox's Gap, but never "drew trigger" owing to confusion (bungling) among the Confederate officers. The Colonel commanding the 3rd, along with Hill himself, devoted some effort in the post-war era in heaping blame on Gen. Ripley for the failure to engage the enemy, and for the excessive casualties suffered by Drayton's Brigade (around 50%). Like Hill, Ripley would leave the ANV after the Maryland Campaign under somewhat cloudy circumstances.

In addition, Thomas Drayton was transferred to the Trans-Mississippi after Antietam and his brigade was broken up and used to reinforce other brigades (50th and 51st Georgia went to Paul Semmes, 15th South Carolina and 3rd South Carolina Battalion went to Joseph Kershaw, and Phillips' Legion went to William Wofford).

Ryan

 

[Jantzen64]

I seem to recall some account of South Mountain written by Hill where he commented, right before the battle and seeing what was coming his way, that he felt an incredible sense of "loneliness." Looking at this thread prompted me to try to find that quote because I remember being struck by his candor. But, I've looked at several sources, including his OR, and can't seem to find it. Does anyone else recall this?

 

[Bruce Vail]

In addition, Thomas Drayton was transferred to the Trans-Mississippi after Antietam and his brigade was broken up and used to reinforce other brigades (50th and 51st Georgia went to Paul Semmes, 15th South Carolina and 3rd South Carolina Battalion went to Joseph Kershaw, and Phillips' Legion went to William Wofford).

Ryan

Yet another of Hill's brigade leaders was obliged to leave the ANV in disrepute as a result of the Maryland Campaign. Gen. Samuel Garland had a sterling reputation but was killed at Fox's Gap. He was replaced by Col. Duncan MacRae (of the 5th NC Infantry) who then led Garland's Brigade at the Battle of Antietam. The brigade rather famously broke and ran away during the fighting at the Cornfield Sept. 17, and, fairly or unfairly, MacRae was blamed. He resigned his commission shortly afterwards.

And although it is true that Hill's Division fought ferociously in the Cornfield and at the Bloody Lane, it is also true that it was driven from the field by the Yankees in both cases. This lack of success was almost certainly a factor in the decline in his reputation.

 

[rpkennedy]

Yet another of Hill's brigade leaders was obliged to leave the ANV in disrepute as a result of the Maryland Campaign. Gen. Samuel Garland had a sterling reputation but was killed at Fox's Gap. He was replaced by Col. Duncan MacRae (of the 5th NC Infantry) who then led Garland's Brigade at the Battle of Antietam. The brigade rather famously broke and ran away during the fighting at the Cornfield Sept. 17, and, fairly or unfairly, MacRae was blamed. He resigned his commission shortly afterwards.

And although it is true that Hill's Division fought ferociously in the Cornfield and at the Bloody Lane, it is also true that it was driven from the field by the Yankees in both cases. This lake of success was almost certainly a factor in the decline in his reputation.

Alfred Iverson being given command over MacRae may very well have been because of the brigade's failure at Antietam which caused all sorts of problems in the brigade that would result in its near destruction at Gettysburg.

And I had forgotten that Alfred Colquitt and his brigade were sent away in the aftermath of Chancellorsville due to the perceived failures of its commander. Another potential casualty of the fallout from the Maryland Campaign.

Ryan

 

[GilbertFarney]

Lee was not upset about the lost orders.

Someone can correct me but I thought for the south mountain battle, Hill left Ripley in charge of one of the gaps, or of part of the division, while he stayed personally in the valley below. Ripley was well known to be his worst brigadier and Lee judged that decision post campaign as part of his evaluation of Hill, again someone correct me but I think I am on the right trail.

To my knowledge, Hill left Ripley in command of the defense of Fox's Gap late in the day. Hill then returned to his HQ at the Mountain House at Turner's Gap. Ripley was the senior brigadier at Fox's Gap, so the decision made sense from that perspective. That said, Ripley botched things so badly that even his own brigade barely got into the fight. This article by Kurt Graham is excellent on the subject. https://www.angelfire.com/ga2/PhillipsLegion/deathofabrigade.html

 

[Bruce Vail]

To my knowledge, Hill left Ripley in command of the defense of Fox's Gap late in the day. Hill then returned to his HQ at the Mountain House at Turner's Gap. Ripley was the senior brigadier at Fox's Gap, so the decision made sense from that perspective. That said, Ripley botched things so badly that even his own brigade barely got into the fight. This article by Kurt Graham is excellent on the subject. https://www.angelfire.com/ga2/PhillipsLegion/deathofabrigade.html

Many thanks for the link. I had not seen this piece before.

It certainly explains why Drayton was banished from the ANV after the Maryland campaign. I wonder whether Hill abused Drayton in print after the war the same way he abused Ripley?

 

[Jamieva]

To my knowledge, Hill left Ripley in command of the defense of Fox's Gap late in the day. Hill then returned to his HQ at the Mountain House at Turner's Gap. Ripley was the senior brigadier at Fox's Gap, so the decision made sense from that perspective. That said, Ripley botched things so badly that even his own brigade barely got into the fight. This article by Kurt Graham is excellent on the subject. https://www.angelfire.com/ga2/PhillipsLegion/deathofabrigade.html

Thank you i knew i wasnt losing my mind but could not recall 100% the details nor where i saw it.

 

[rpkennedy]

Many thanks for the link. I had not seen this piece before.

It certainly explains why Drayton was banished from the ANV after the Maryland campaign. I wonder whether Hill abused Drayton in print after the war the same way he abused Ripley?

Drayton came under severe criticism for his brigade's (lack of) actions at Second Manassas and South Mountain was the icing on that cake. Honestly, if there had been a break between the Manassas and Maryland Campaigns, Drayton probably would have been relieved after Manassas.

Ryan

 

[GilbertFarney]

Many thanks for the link. I had not seen this piece before.

It certainly explains why Drayton was banished from the ANV after the Maryland campaign. I wonder whether Hill abused Drayton in print after the war the same way he abused Ripley?

You're quite welcome. Here is what Lee had to say about Drayton:

"General Drayton's brigade has been a source of delay and embarrassment from the time the army left Richmond. At Manassas it could not be got into the battle. At South Mountain and Sharpsburg it broke to pieces. I do not mean to charge this as the fault of General Drayton ; but, in addition, he does not seem able to keep up the organization of his brigade. The colonels of his regiments are absent, and he cannot keep his staff together, so it is reported by General Longstreet. He is a gentleman, and in his own person a soldier, but seems to lack the capacity to command. His brigade has been changed from one division to another more than once. At one time he was under General D.R. Jones, from whom I received frequent complaints. Then I placed it under General McLaws, who says it cannot operate as at present organized. General Longstreet says the service of the brigade as it now stands is lost to the army. I am compelled, therefore, to make a change, and wish to do it in the manner least disagreeable to General Drayton, for whom I feel great friendship. The brigade is composed partly of Georgia and partly of South Carolina troops. I propose to assign the regiments to brigades composed of troops from the respective States of each, and give General Drayton leave of absence for thirty days, at the end of which I hope some duty may be found for him in the South or Southwest, which he may be able to perform with advantage to the service." R. E. Lee to Jefferson Davis, Nov. 25, 1862 in OR 21, 1030.