CSS Tennessee Digital Model

[JOHN42768]

Really looks very good

 

[unionblue]

It's great to see these vessels as they would have looked new!

Great job!

 

[Schwallanscher]

it's probably just me, but when i see these pics i want them animated and slug it out in charleston harbour. with the involvment of a fort or two, of course

 

[OwenRichards]

I'm going to try and recreate as much of the battle as I can. Modelling a flotilla of wooden steam sloops with this amount of detail is probably going to be prohibitive as far as time is concerned, but if I'm careful with framing, I should be able to recreate a few moments from the battle.

One problem is scale. In illustrations and diagrams, it shows the battle as if it occurred in a large pond:

This is very dramatic, and would look very cool in 3D. In reality though, until the ships closed to do battle with each other, it would look a lot more like bumps on the horizon with smoke coming out of them. I've got to establish some scale as to what stuff would actually look like if you were there.

Also, there are some ways of faking ship wakes in Blender that would make my life a lot easier in post-pro. The problem is that you need to animate the ships to do this. There are loads of polygons and sub-surface modifiers (turbo-smooth) and 2 and 4k textures, which makes this difficult to process as far as CPU and GPU cycles are concerned.

 

[Schwallanscher]

I'm going to try and recreate as much of the battle as I can. Modelling a flotilla of wooden steam sloops with this amount of detail is probably going to be prohibitive as far as time is concerned, but if I'm careful with framing, I should be able to recreate a few moments from the battle.

One problem is scale. In illustrations and diagrams, it shows the battle as if it occurred in a large pond:

This is very dramatic, and would look very cool in 3D. In reality though, until the ships closed to do battle with each other, it would look a lot more like bumps on the horizon with smoke coming out of them. I've got to establish some scale as to what stuff would actually look like if you were there.

Also, there are some ways of faking ship wakes in Blender that would make my life a lot easier in post-pro. The problem is that you need to animate the ships to do this. There are loads of polygons and sub-surface modifiers (turbo-smooth) and 2 and 4k textures, which makes this difficult to process as far as CPU and GPU cycles are concerned.

that's why i'm glad you're doing it

 

[OwenRichards]

Started this:

 

[OwenRichards]

Most details are in place, though textures are very WIP. She would be stripped down for action, so no outhouses, davits, etc.

Does anyone know if her turrets had rivets or not? I can't make out from the pictures I have if she does or not.

 

[rebelatsea]

Most details are in place, though textures are very WIP. She would be stripped down for action, so no outhouses, davits, etc.

Does anyone know if her turrets had rivets or not? I can't make out from the pictures I have if she does or not.

Not 100% sure ,bit I think they were bolted through and countersunk to show a smooth surface.

 

[Kazziga]

Does anyone know if her turrets had rivets or not? I can't make out from the pictures I have if she does or not.

I am sure the plates were bolted together and I guess they didn't bother to countersink the bolts to have smooth surface outside.

 

[OwenRichards]

I'm thinking that as well. I tried to see if any of the iron works who made the other monitors constructed the Milwaukee class ships but no. If they had, I could have checked photos of ironclads from that yard and seen how they did their turrets.

I'll study the photos again, but I think they are counter-sunk.

 

[rebelatsea]

I am sure the plates were bolted together and I guess they didn't bother to countersink the bolts to have smooth surface outside.

Kaz, I might be wrong but I thought the Ead's monitor bolts were countersunk.

 

[Kazziga]

These large TIFFs do not answer the question:
https://www.history.navy.mil/conten.../nhhc-series/nh-series/NH-64000/NH-64090.html
https://www.history.navy.mil/conten.../nhhc-series/nh-series/NH-66000/NH-66507.html
https://www.history.navy.mil/conten...-nh-599/nh-510-uss-milwaukee--1864-1865-.html

and Stauffer's drawing seem to suggest bolts (but the resolution is to low to be certain):
https://new.gilderlehrman.org/community/blog/civil-war–era-sketches-by-david-stauffer

 

[OwenRichards]

Thanks for posting them!
There are these links as well:

https://www.history.navy.mil/conten...ories/ship-histories/danfs/m/milwaukee-i.html
https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/uss-winnebago-river-monitor/119440
http://navsource.org/archives/01/pdf/01turret.pdf

According to Wikipedia, the fore turret on all but the Chickasaw were Eads turrets while the rear turret is an Ericsson design.

I tried to shrink a photo of the Catskill's turret (which has rivets) to see if you could determine if rivets were on the Milwaukee class ships from the photos we have. It looks like this is a no from this comparison:

EDIT: I had an idea to check if any other ironclads had Eads turrets: There is the Osage, which sports one. I found this link on the site that Kazziga helpfully supplied:
https://www.history.navy.mil/conten.../nhhc-series/nh-series/NH-60000/NH-60295.html

In that photo, I can't see any rivets. The resolution isn't crystal, but I'm inclined to go with a no rivet solution unless someone can sway me.

One interesting thing is that on the Eads turrets, there isn't a substantial lip on the top as there is on the Ericsson designs.

EDIT: I just read Old Steam Navy and it says that the Osage had an Ericsson turret. Hmmm.

 

[OwenRichards]

While looking for more info, I came across this image of the 'Neosho' which is, of course, mis-titled. Although the image is listed on this site as being a 2K image on this website, the site will only display a smaller version.
http://www.civilwarvirtualmuseum.org/1863-1865/camden-expedition-red-river/uss-neosho/

Through some interweb sleuthing, I managed to retrieve the full res image:

I think it's a lower res pic of the Kickapoo that Kazziga posted earlier.

 

[1stMS-Arty]

Here are some more turret pictures cropped from larger images....they are all either Neosho or Osage....still can't make out any rivets.

 

[OwenRichards]

Thank you, I've not seen them before.

 

[rebelatsea]

Thanks for posting them!
There are these links as well:

https://www.history.navy.mil/conten...ories/ship-histories/danfs/m/milwaukee-i.html
https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/uss-winnebago-river-monitor/119440
http://navsource.org/archives/01/pdf/01turret.pdf

According to Wikipedia, the fore turret on all but the Chickasaw were Eads turrets while the rear turret is an Ericsson design.

I tried to shrink a photo of the Catskill's turret (which has rivets) to see if you could determine if rivets were on the Milwaukee class ships from the photos we have. It looks like this is a no from this comparison:

EDIT: I had an idea to check if any other ironclads had Eads turrets: There is the Osage, which sports one. I found this link on the site that Kazziga helpfully supplied:
https://www.history.navy.mil/conten.../nhhc-series/nh-series/NH-60000/NH-60295.html

In that photo, I can't see any rivets. The resolution isn't crystal, but I'm inclined to go with a no rivet solution unless someone can sway me.

One interesting thing is that on the Eads turrets, there isn't a substantial lip on the top as there is on the Ericsson designs.

EDIT: I just read Old Steam Navy and it says that the Osage had an Ericsson turret. Hmmm.

That's because Eads turrets, like Coles were partially sunk into the upper or weather decks.

 

[Tut11]

Outstanding creativity with modern computer processing Kaz! Just think from those era images when taken, they would have never known how important they were to Americans 100 + years later to reconstruct them in detail and color using the tools we have today.

I look forward to all the completed images of these, keep them coming. I'll be utilizing your CSS Manassas image along with @rebelatsea diagram for a model build soon with the two stack representation. Since the consensus seems to be she had two instead of one stack for most of her life. From a modellers stand point your diagrams and 3-D renderings along with the other members work here at CWT is priceless for actual model builds. Thank you for all the hard work!

 

[OwenRichards]

Thank you!

I was over the moon when I first found out about these highly detailed shots stashed away on the interwebs. When I was growing up, the only source reference I had was the American Heritage Ironclads book. Then I got hold of 'Battles and Leaders'. It was only relatively recently that I found out about some of the high-res images of the ironclads.

If you need any other shots of my Manassas, then let me know. I was in mid re-texturing.

 

[Tut11]

Thank you!

I was over the moon when I first found out about these highly detailed shots stashed away on the interwebs. When I was growing up, the only source reference I had was the American Heritage Ironclads book. Then I got hold of 'Battles and Leaders'. It was only relatively recently that I found out about some of the high-res images of the ironclads.

If you need any other shots of my Manassas, then let me know. I was in mid re-texturing.

My pleasure, and yes sir please! The model will be a partial scratch built from Rusty's models at Flagship models. I plan on getting the Manassas kit and then addition two smaller stacks as @rebelatsea plan shows the incorporating your detail onto it. Won't be big about 11".

Here's the kit:

You can tell it will be easy to convert from all of yawls research. Figure 2 months and it will be done. Have to have something else to work on besides the Alabama and the Arkansas, along with a small version of Sanders ship. i should have it in a couple of weeks. So many thanks!!