CSS Albemarle and CSS Neuse differences?

[33RDNCK]

Does anyone know if the Albemarle had deck armor, and if so, what thickness? I grew up near Kinston, and have become aware of the CSS Neuse having had an unarmored deck, which is entirely logical, given the Eastern NC river depths. The Neuse seems in some ways to have been an improved Albemarle; she had 5 gunports for each gun!

 

[rebelatsea]

CSS Albemarle had deck protection, one layer of 2" plates over 12" timber, her knuckle and casemate had 2 x 2" plate over 22" timber.
She had 6 ports, one each fore and aft, two on either broadside. CSS Pamlico and the Roanoke River vessel would have been the same.

CSS Neuse was constructed to John L Porter's original plan, but did not receive deck armour, and the knuckle fore and aft of the casemate had only 2" plate, due to being well overweght for reasons now unknown. Her casemate armour was 2 x 2" plate over 24" timber. She had ten ports. One each fore and aft, one on each quarter face, and two on each broadside. , At 258ft (OA) She was 4ft longer than the Albemarle.
The armament was uniform: 2 x 6.4" Brooke single banded MLR.
The Neuse was also unique in being propelled by the firebox, boiler, and cylinders taken from Baltimore & Ohio locomotive No 34,. with each cylinder geared to separate shafts.

 

[USS ALASKA]

Well heck, there is a question for @DaveBrt . Sir, did the B & O get all her parts and pieces back during 'The Great Scavenger Hunt' post war?

Cheers,
USS ALASKA

 

[rebelatsea]

There was indeed a vessel which has come to be identified as an improved Albemarle - except that it wasn't an Albemarle !

Name: Name unknown

Class: "improved" Albemarle
Type: Ironclad sloop. Screw(s): two, Speed: 8.5 knots
Dimensions: 153ft OA x 36ft EX x 9ft D, 708 tons
Guns: 4 on Pivot mounts, meaning either port or starboard guns were able to fire through the fore and aft ports
Armour: 4" iron,
Design: J. L. Porter (?) Builder: Unknown at Tarboro, Construction site moved to the Roanoke River For completion either at Edwards Ferry or Rainbow Bluff.
Laid Down: Mid 1864 Not completed:
History:
The plan from which this drawing is taken was done by a US Army officer who saw the ship in the Roanoke River. (not to be confused with the earlier proposed Albemarle type at Tillery's Farm),
Ordered by Secretary Mallory as an "improved Albemarle", which has caused confusion to researchers ever since, as this vessel was not in fact an "Albemarle". To be ready for service in 1865. the weather deck and casemate extended two feet each side of the hull proper.
Casemate slope was increased to 30 degrees whilst the hull armour and backing was added in a belt outside the hull and under the overhang.
The hull was also different at the stern from the "Albemarle" plan in that it featured a spoon shape stern. It is not thought that this vessel carried the "new" quarterdeck form as seen in CSS Jackson and CSS Wilmington. She was burned to avoid capture in early 1865.

Original plan by the author from a contemporary drawing.

===============================================================

 

[rebelatsea]

BTW, The entry in my book, from which the above was taken reflected the then thinking by the Columbus Museum that CSS Jackson had a full extension as per the !Wilmington" - until it was pointed out that 1) they didn't have enough of the stern to prove it, and 2) the original plan had rounded stern which matched the Jackson. So no, CSS Jackson did not have the elongated addition, and neither did the Proposed CSS South Carolina at Charleston, or Mr Porter's Ironclad at Richmond, the latter two being new builds.

 

[USS ALASKA]

The machinery seems have been removed after the war by New Bern treasury representative William Heaton. He was able to auction Neuse's machinery to the New York firm of Satterlee & Lyon for $3,500 (Campbell 2009:58). The auction advertisement in the 3 October 1865 edition of The North Carolina Gazette listed two engines, one donkey engine, and a boiler (Campbell 2009:58).

Page 123

The source of Neuse's two engines is uncertain—they may have come from Richmond, but are also listed as having come from Pugh's Mill in New Bern, North Carolina (Official Records, Navies 1987 [Ser. 1, Vol. 23]:290). It seems more likely that the engines were obtained from the same source as Neuse's single 15-foot long boiler: a Baltimore & Ohio Railroad 0-8-0 "mud digger" steam locomotive (Bright et al. 1981:153). The locomotive is thought to be No. 34 "Gladiator", built in 1844. If the engines indeed were the scavenged cylinders of this locomotive, they would have measured 17 inches in diameter with a 24-inch stroke (Bell 1912:57). Although Neuse was scuttled on 12 March 1865, it is unknown what happened to the machinery due to postwar salvage (Bright et al. 1981:153). Several conflicting accounts exist (Bright et al. 1981:153; Campbell 2009:58-59).

Page 227

How A Vessel of This Magnitude Was Moved : A Comparative Analysis of Confederate Ironclad Steam Engines Boilers and Propulsion Systems
Saxon T. Bisbee
Page 123

Engines of the Rebellion: Confederate Ironclads and Steam Engineering in the American Civil War | Naval War - At Sea & Along Inland Waterways

My father was a marine engineer who worked his way up to master. When he was young and just went to sea between the wars he was surprised to see how many of the older steamers used Lignum vitae as bearings on the drive shafts of propeller driven vessels. This wood is so dense that it doesn't...

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Cheers,
USS ALASKA

 

[USS ALASKA]

Free reading with all kinds of tie-ins...

The Development of Confederate Ship Construction : An Archaeological and Historical Investigation of Confederate Ironclads Neuse and Jackson
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Civil War Naval Papers | Naval War - At Sea & Along Inland Waterways

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Postmortem Archaeology: Reinterpreting Salvaged Sites using the CSS Neuse as a Case Study
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CSN Gunboat Flora McDonald | Naval War - At Sea & Along Inland Waterways

The Baltimore & Ohio RR rep looking for the locomotives Capt. Sharp had hauled south in 1861 was told that the boiler of locomotive #34 had been placed in CS gunboat Flora McDonald and that the ship had been sunk as an obstruction in the river near Wilmington. The possibility that this boiler...

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The story of the CSS Neuse | Naval War - At Sea & Along Inland Waterways

https://thesouthernbelleweb.wordpress.com/2017/10/03/the-story-of-the-css-neuse/

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Ironclad Neuse Construction Document | Naval War - At Sea & Along Inland Waterways

Below is my transcription of a document found in the North Carolina Archives, in the Major John D. Whitford papers. Whitford was the President of the Atlantic & North Carolina RR and Railroad Transportation Officer for North Carolina for most of the war. This collection and this document are not...

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1864 MODEL OF CSS NEUSE | Naval War - At Sea & Along Inland Waterways

This may be a question for Corn -fed -erate. I came across this while looking for something else, it is described as constructed in 1864 and" intended to represent the Neuse" . As we know from the recovered ship, the book on Elliott, and Porter's drawings it only vaguely represents the vessel...

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CSS Neuse & Albermarle Boilers | Naval War - At Sea & Along Inland Waterways

Silverstone says the both ships had 2 screws and 2 horizontal non-condensing engines (18" x 1' 7"), 2 boilers; IHP 400. The sketch on the Neuse web site shows only one boiler. The letter quoted says THE boiler was lowered into the ship. One source says a boiler like those in use at the time in...

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When did the Neuse receive her boiler? | Naval War - At Sea & Along Inland Waterways

In the summer of 1861, Capt. Sharp hauled south a hundred or so pieces of rolling stock captured from the Baltimore & Ohio RR. One of these was locomotive "34." Current understanding, from inspection of the remains of the Neuse, is that the 34 gave up its boiler to power the Neuse. B&O records...

civilwartalk.com

HTHs,
USS ALASKA

 

[33RDNCK]

BTW, The entry in my book, from which the above was taken reflected the then thinking by the Columbus Museum that CSS Jackson had a full extension as per the !Wilmington" - until it was pointed out that 1) they didn't have enough of the stern to prove it, and 2) the original plan had rounded stern which matched the Jackson. So no, CSS Jackson did not have the elongated addition, and neither did the Proposed CSS South Carolina at Charleston, or Mr Porter's Ironclad at Richmond, the latter two being new builds.

I'd love to buy a copy of your book. Could you send the Title?

 

[rebelatsea]

I'd love to buy a copy of your book. Could you send the Title?

"The Southern Iron Navy". It's available as download PDF from Wargamesvault.com under the working title "Ironclads and Iron Protected Vessels of The Confederate States Navy 1861 -1865. It's not 100% accurate, and I have version 2 under way incorporating information gained since 2019 when it was published.

 

[JimmerDog]

CSS Albemarle had deck protection, one layer of 2" plates over 12" timber, her knuckle and casemate had 2 x 2" plate over 22" timber.
She had 6 ports, one each fore and aft, two on either broadside. CSS Pamlico and the Roanoke River vessel would have been the same.

CSS Neuse was constructed to John L Porter's original plan, but did not receive deck armour, and the knuckle fore and aft of the casemate had only 2" plate, due to being well overweght for reasons now unknown. Her casemate armour was 2 x 2" plate over 24" timber. She had ten ports. One each fore and aft, one on each quarter face, and two on each broadside. , At 258ft (OA) She was 4ft longer than the Albemarle.
The armament was uniform: 2 x 6.4" Brooke single banded MLR.
The Neuse was also unique in being propelled by the firebox, boiler, and cylinders taken from Baltimore & Ohio locomotive No 34,. with each cylinder geared to separate sh

Does anyone know if the Albemarle had deck armor, and if so, what thickness? I grew up near Kinston, and have become aware of the CSS Neuse having had an unarmored deck, which is entirely logical, given the Eastern NC river depths. The Neuse seems in some ways to have been an improved Albemarle; she had 5 gunports for each gun!

Have youbeen aboard the replica NEUSE in Kinston?

Does anyone know if the Albemarle had deck armor, and if so, what thickness? I grew up near Kinston, and have become aware of the CSS Neuse having had an unarmored deck, which is entirely logical, given the Eastern NC river depths. The Neuse seems in some ways to have been an improved Albemarle; she had 5 gunports for each gun!

 

[rebelatsea]

Albemarle is supposed to have had 2" deck armour, As far as I know she did. Neuse never received her deck amour as she was well overweight. It is possible that she didn't have the knuckle armour fore and aft of the casemate either as the hull was well overweight, why does not seem to be recorded.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

I'm learning much from this thread.

I always thought these two Confederate ironclads were virtually identical.

Apparently, I was wrong.

 

[rebelatsea]

I'm learning much from this thread.

I always thought these two Confederate ironclads were virtually identical.

Apparently, I was wrong.

Don't worry. Thirty plus years researching the ironclads, one book, many articles here and elsewhere and I'm still learning !