CSA flags

[Rhea Cole]

An appraiser who specializes in Civil War items told me that he hasn't seen an authentic CSA flag on the open market in over ten years. The few outside state, museum & specialist collections are extremely rare. Unless the flag had been conserved, the chance of a 160 year old item even surviving at all are slim to none. Ai authentic CSA flags can sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

This item, which absurdly includes Nashville as a battle honor, is obviously a fake. The 1st SC served exclusively in the A of NV, re: National Park Battle Unit Details. Apparently, whoever created it hasn't access to the internet.

 

[JackADriscoll]

I think this flag might be an antique in it own right. The auction house definitely didn't

 

[Rhea Cole]

I think this flag might be an antique in it own right. The auction house definitely didn't

I assure you that the only thing antique about that decorator item was what it was supposed to look like.

 

[JackADriscoll]

I assure you that the only thing antique about that decorator item was what it was supposed to look like.

When do you think it was made?

 

[Gandycreek]

When do you think it was made?

I believe these started appearing on eBay about 20 yrs ago. There used to be another site called Civil war fake busters. They had a flag guy who called them out. Package4 is right they came out of Bristol Tenn. A lot of people got burnt with them.

 

[Rhea Cole]

When do you think it was made?

It is a decorator item. It could have been made last week. I would suggest that a native English speaker would have made a simple Google search & found out the real 1st South Carolina's battle record. Nobody with even rudimentary Civil War history knowledge would have made this ridiculous thing.

If you want to see what actual CSA flags look like:

"Alabama Civil War Period Flag Collection" is online. There are 59 pages of infantry flags. There is a total of 11 categories, i .e., cavalry, artillery, etc. The website is well designed & easy to use.

 

[Package4]

How long ago were these flags made? Were they intended as counterfeits in the ¨rip-off¨ kind of sense, or were they decorative art that got out of hand? Did they ever print stories with them; like, why is there an odd rectangular cutout in the field of the flag?

No, as I recall the maker of these flags sold them as originals for unbelievable amounts and had one particular buyer. When that buyer found out that these were bogus after spending many hundreds of thousands of dollars there were physical and life ending threats.

I seem to remember that Howard Madaus was consulted, not sure….

 

[7thWisconsin]

No, as I recall the maker of these flags sold them as originals for unbelievable amounts and had one particular buyer. When that buyer found out that these were bogus after spending many hundreds of thousands of dollars there were physical and life ending threats.

I seem to remember that Howard Madaus was consulted, not sure….

Yikes. That´s horrible. I think I would have made threats too, peaceful as I am.

 

[UCVRelics]

Flag is fake, there was a well know counterfeiter who made flags of this size for a number of years. A real flag would not be this size as it would be incredibly difficult to see in battle. There was a name for this group of counterfeit flags, but it escapes me at present @ucvrelics may remember.

They were out of Bristol TN and there were 3 of them. They made these fake flags out of old Mexican sail cloth. The first started making fake CS flags and when they got called on them switched to CS reunion flags. I know that 2 of them went to jail as a doctor in VA that had bought one of the so called CS flags pushed it pretty hard and one of the 3 flipped on the other 2. The lady that actually sewed them go probation. Too this day they still pop up.

 

[19thGeorgia]

Battle of Georgetown?
COLUMDIA?

 

[10th Michigan Infantry]

1st South Carolina what? Infantry? If it means infantry then the 1st South Carolina fought in the east under Lee exclusively, they weren't at Nashville, that is for sure. This flag is no good in my opinion.

 

[10th Michigan Infantry]

One more thing, there was no Colonel Mills for the 1st South Carolina either, some information can be found here:

1st South Carolina Infantry Regiment (Provisional Army)

History of the 1st South Carolina Infantry Regiment (Provisional Army) in the American Civil War

civilwarintheeast.com

 

[Rhea Cole]

1st South Carolina what? Infantry? If it means infantry then the 1st South Carolina fought in the east under Lee exclusively, they weren't at Nashville, that is for sure. This flag is no good in my opinion.

Maybe they mixed it up with the 1st South Carolina Infantry Regiment (Colored.)

 

[10th Michigan Infantry]

Maybe they mixed it up with the 1st South Carolina Infantry Regiment (Colored.)

Which tells me that the people that make these fake flags and other similar items likely aren't very knowledgeable on the war, which is certainly good for collectors.

 

[Package4]

These are still out there, The Horse Soldier is in the process of selling about 11 authenticated Southern flags, here is one of the nicest:

Two others surfaced not terribly long ago at an auction in eastern shore of Maryland. The chest they were in, sold for $250, with the flags tucked inside. One sold later for a couple of hundred thousand. Auction was for household goods, so the buyer had no clue they were real.

I examined another at an undisclosed location, it was a war trophy with the associated capture stamp on the hoist. Apparently it was borrowed from the government for a reunion and never returned. The flag cannot be sold on the open market for fear of confiscation, so the owner believes.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Which tells me that the people that make these fake flags and other similar items likely aren't very knowledgeable on the war, which is certainly good for collectors.

There is a distinction with a real difference. Decorator items are often made by very skilled artisans. My 3 year old great grandson is the first boy in my wife's direct line in 88 years… I have spent a lot of time admiring the quality of the craftsmanship of decor items at various eminence "barns," "lobbies," "outlets," etc. Occasionally, decorator objects become "Authentic Confederate artifacts."

There exists a species of artisans & dealers who deliberately set out to deceive. Apparently, the market for counterfeit "Confederate" relics is bottomless. Ridiculous looking giant "fighting knives" are especially popular.

Cheats don't even have to forge their own raw material. At any Blacksmith gathering they are almost guaranteed to find clunky over large knives for sale. A patina & some etched or embossed letters is all it takes to create an heirloom worth ten times what they bargained the smith down to.

The fake flag & knife market is the epitome of my Dad's saying, "The man without tools is the natural prey of a man with tools."

 

[Rhea Cole]

On the 'Confederate Battle Flags' page of the 'Arkansas Encyclopedia' includes an authentic example of the type under discussion here. It is a "Stainless Banner" second national belonging to the 6th & 7th Arkansas Consolidated Infantry.

Amongst other details, the authentic flag has proportions of hoist to fly of 1 to 1 1/2.

<cyclopediaofarkansas.net>

 

[Nathan Towne]

There were many units which were combined with other units over the course of the war. Here are two, for instance.

I am not sure what unit this is, but I can't definitively state that it is a fake at this point.