CSA Belt Plate

Gman37

Cadet
Joined
Jul 19, 2019
Hello all - I've had this plate for nearly 30 years now, and bought it from an antique dealer from Virginia. I had the metal analyzed and it is over 90% copper, but I still can't seem to find one just like it. Any information or help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

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The CS did have a plate of this style, (ie 2 piece with keeper). This one is not one of them as the lettering is wrong. I believe this may be a Hanover Brass repop.
 
Hello all - I've had this plate for nearly 30 years now, and bought it from an antique dealer from Virginia. I had the metal analyzed and it is over 90% copper, but I still can't seem to find one just like it. Any information or help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

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Gman, if you contact Gary at Hanover Brass he will tell you if it’s one of his buckles. Most of his buckles are cast from an authentic original. He is an experienced collector also. Good luck. Jonl51
 
Hello all - I've had this plate for nearly 30 years now, and bought it from an antique dealer from Virginia. I had the metal analyzed and it is over 90% copper, but I still can't seem to find one just like it. Any information or help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

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View attachment 380744
Gman, May I ask how did you have the metal analyzed? I have something I would like tested. Thank you. Jonl51
 
Thank you all very much for your comments. I have sent an email to Hanover Brass to ask Gary's opinion. The late, and great, Steve Mullinax told me he had seen only one of this type at a show in Texas some time ago, so I was hoping someone else had come across one. **Jonl51 - There is an apparatus called a spectro-analyzer that provides accurate analysis of metals without causing any damage when conducted by a professional.
 
Thank you all very much for your comments. I have sent an email to Hanover Brass to ask Gary's opinion. The late, and great, Steve Mullinax told me he had seen only one of this type at a show in Texas some time ago, so I was hoping someone else had come across one. **Jonl51 - There is an apparatus called a spectro-analyzer that provides accurate analysis of metals without causing any damage when conducted by a professional.
Gman,
It is quite possible your buckle is authentic, the high copper content is very interesting.
Gary has been producing buckles for more than 30 years and has also dug quite a few. He will know if he made it. Thank you for the info on the spectro-analyzer, I will check into it. If Steve Mullinax looked at your buckle and didn’t pronounce it suspect, that is encouraging. Hope it is the real deal,
it would be quite the collector piece. Best regards Jonl51
 
Gman,
It is quite possible your buckle is authentic, the high copper content is very interesting.
Gary has been producing buckles for more than 30 years and has also dug quite a few. He will know if he made it. Thank you for the info on the spectro-analyzer, I will check into it. If Steve Mullinax looked at your buckle and didn’t pronounce it suspect, that is encouraging. Hope it is the real deal,
it would be quite the collector piece. Best regards Jonl51
Steve did not look at this buckle and Hanover Brass is responsible for a LOT of CS fake plates that were bought by unscrupulous folks who would put a fake patina on his plates and sell as original. It got to the point that he had to start putting marking on them. There is one of these in his book and in a museum in Maryland but this one is NOT original.
 
Steve did not look at this buckle and Hanover Brass is responsible for a LOT of CS fake plates that were bought by unscrupulous folks who would put a fake patina on his plates and sell as original. It got to the point that he had to start putting marking on them. There is one of these in his book and in a museum in Maryland but this one is NOT original.
I would agree that in making repros from authentic originals without clearly marking them (so they can’t easily be altered ) Hanover Brass gave fraudsters an opportunity to make fakes. However I believe Gary’s quest was to make the most historically correct repro buckles he could
for re-enactors/ collectors/etc.Jonl51
 
Steve did not look at this buckle and Hanover Brass is responsible for a LOT of CS fake plates that were bought by unscrupulous folks who would put a fake patina on his plates and sell as original. It got to the point that he had to start putting marking on them. There is one of these in his book and in a museum in Maryland but this one is NOT original.
Ucvrelics, perhaps you could educate some of us novices as to what about this buckle says “Not original “. We are here to learn as well as share knowledge. Thank you. Jonl51
 
Gman,
It is quite possible your buckle is authentic, the high copper content is very interesting.
Gary has been producing buckles for more than 30 years and has also dug quite a few. He will know if he made it. Thank you for the info on the spectro-analyzer, I will check into it. If Steve Mullinax looked at your buckle and didn’t pronounce it suspect, that is encouraging. Hope it is the real deal,
it would be quite the collector piece. Best regards Jonl51
The high copper content just means that the individual who cast this buckle had access to a few rolls of pennies, so for less that $2 you had the material for a buckle.

There are examples of this type of buckle, but all of them have footed letters, no doubt, that was what Steve was referring.
 
I talked with Steve on the phone after I found it in 1990, at which time I sent him photos. Then I met him at a show in Savannah, GA, and showed it to him personally . . . sometime in the late 1990's. He said it was his opinion that it was most likely a post-war reunion plate, but it could be war period. He particularly liked the wear on the tongue, that it was attached and not integral, and the file marks. Interesting conversation here, though. Which museum in Maryland has this plate? Thanks again for all the input!
 
The one in Steve's book is located in Maryland Steuart Collection Virginia Historical Society, Richmond, Va. The 3 things that jump out is the font is not even close to the one there, the high copper content and no bench mark on the back.
 
I talked with Steve on the phone after I found it in 1990, at which time I sent him photos. Then I met him at a show in Savannah, GA, and showed it to him personally . . . sometime in the late 1990's. He said it was his opinion that it was most likely a post-war reunion plate, but it could be war period. He particularly liked the wear on the tongue, that it was attached and not integral, and the file marks. Interesting conversation here, though. Which museum in Maryland has this plate? Thanks again for all the input!
Hey, it’s a neat buckle and most likely for the Centennial. Dave Taylor once gave me some sage advice, “if you’re not sure, don’t pay more than a happy meal for it.” You would be way ahead if that’s what you paid.
 
I talked with Steve on the phone after I found it in 1990, at which time I sent him photos. Then I met him at a show in Savannah, GA, and showed it to him personally . . . sometime in the late 1990's. He said it was his opinion that it was most likely a post-war reunion plate, but it could be war period. He particularly liked the wear on the tongue, that it was attached and not integral, and the file marks. Interesting conversation here, though. Which museum in Maryland has this plate? Thanks again for all the input!
Since Steve looked at it in person and didn’t completely rule it out, might be worth
a bit more research. Did you ever hear from Hanover Brass? Jonl51
 
Its worth a look but IMHO is a repop. As I have said many time here the best way to know if a CW plate is original is find them yourself.
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Most confederates had their own belts etc roller ones. They didn't had issued leathers material like the Union did. They had a lot made up in factory's up North in New York or Pittsburgh etc. South didn't really needed all that, extra brass on the stuff they needed to fight battles etc.
 
Since Steve looked at it in person and didn’t completely rule it out, might be worth
a bit more research. Did you ever hear from Hanover Brass? Jonl51
Ok, it needs to be said, having known Steve for a number of years, when at shows, with the general public, if the plate was not an outright fake or reproduction, he was many times gracious.

The answer given was one typical of Steve and others. I received the same answer from Dave Taylor, many years ago when I purchased what I knew to be a medical enlisted Civil War kepi. No one wants to be the bearer of bad news, so Dave looked at my purchase and said a few nice things, like could be, beautiful cap etc. The cap turned out to be original, original Indian Wars kepi, Dave knew it but decided it was best to let me have my glory. As it turns out, it is a very rare kepi, just not what I thought is was.

My dealings with Steve were similar, if he wasn’t dead sure, but thought it was post or repop, he would say maybe, I then knew it wasn’t.

I learned by asking “what will you pay for this”, I then got their true feelings and sometimes it hurt.

I have a different take on this, I believe in pulling the band aid off quickly, that way when it comes to sell or pass on, it’s true identity and value are known, there are no surprises.

I’m going on a rant here, but the many unsuspecting victims of eBay purchases are in for a real shock, when they go to sell their invaluable treasures........
 
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Ok, it needs to be said, having known Steve for a number of years, when at shows, with the general public, if the plate was not an outright fake or reproduction, he was many times gracious.

The answer given was one typical of Steve and others. I received the same answer from Dave Taylor, many years ago when I purchased what I knew to be a medical enlisted Civil War kepi. No one wants to be the bearer of bad news, so Dave looked at my purchase and said a few nice things, like could be, beautiful cap etc. The cap turned out to be original, original Indian Wars kepi, Dave knew it but decided it was best to let me have my glory. As it turns out, it is a very rare kepi, just not what I thought is was.

My dealings with Steve were similar, if he wasn’t dead sure, but thought it was post or repop, he would say maybe, I then knew it wasn’t.

I learned by asking “what will you pay for this”, I then got their true feelings and sometimes it hurt.

I have a different take on this, I believe in pulling the bandaid off quickly, that way when it comes to sell or pass on, it’s true identity and value are known, there are no surprise.

I’m going on a rant here, but the many unsuspecting victims of EBay purchases are in for a real shock, when they go to sell their invaluable treasures........
No question about the many “ treasures “ sold on eBay as being authentic. Buckles are especially suspect nowadays with the high quality of reproductions available for the dishonest to take advantage of. Therefore simply relying on pictures to pass judgment is problematic in many cases unless it is an obvious fake/repro. As has already been stated, digging them up eliminates the guess work, although not
feasible for many of us. Jonl51
 
No question about the many “ treasures “ sold on eBay as being authentic. Buckles are especially suspect nowadays with the high quality of reproductions available for the dishonest to take advantage of. Therefore simply relying on pictures to pass judgment is problematic in many cases unless it is an obvious fake/repro. As has already been stated, digging them up eliminates the guess work, although not
feasible for many of us. Jonl51
Actually, since I am a cloth guy, I am very angry about the headgear fakes of three specific sellers. eBay doesn't seem to care and I have stopped nagging them, but a $75 cap just went for over $1,200 and this seller does this every two weeks. Some of the caps have gone for much more than that.

I actually purchased one of these fakes, returned it and blasted the seller in feedback, he just popped up with a different handle and location!

I wonder if the FBI would care about these fakes, they are using the postal service to send them across state lines........
 
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