Confusion

[Freddy]

General John C. Fremont began emancipating slaves in Missouri, a border state, in 1861 and was sacked by Lincoln when he refused Lincoln's order to stop emancipating slaves.

 

[Freddy]

As i said, i'm not waiting to go Ha! I don't care to get into who was right or wrong. At this point I'm having a hard time understanding, if it was all about slavery why were they freed or able to go freely immediately from the occupied states ? And it took several years later for something big enough to cause war to become law?

The Union's original war aim was to crush the rebellion and restore the Union. Later the idea of emancipation for slaves in states still in rebellion took effect on January 1, 1863. Now the war had dual aims.

 

[ole]

I have a couple questions.They are ??? so before someone again thinks i'm waiting to shout a big HA! And also someone said"if you read more here,it's already been discussed"Ok ,well people join here daily or so,and don't know where to go find all the answers.

Be patient. There is a search function that works pretty good for many. I've never had any luck with it, but I've heard it works just fine.

Anyhoo.If slavery was the big deal behind all this, why was it i think lincoln said the states at the time could keep doing as they wished,He or they didn't want the other states to suceed to do the same?Why wasn't the freedom of slavery evrywhere immediately?

The Constitution didn't change and it specifically said that persons held to service must be given up on claim. As southland is fond of saying, slavery was legal. No president can waltz in there and change the Constitution.

why even in northern states was there still slavery untill the 13th ammnd.

If you wish to consider Delaware, New Jersey, Maryland, Kentucky and Missouri as northern states, you are free to do so.

Why would grant say" if aboliltionists say he was fighting to free slavery he would offer his services to the south?

This quote was traced back to an opposition political pamphlet. Nothing before that has surfaced. So it is quite likely he never said it.

Again these are questions i do not understand or have not found an answer.They are based on things i've read.I'm not saying they are true or not.If you can answer them with facts I thank you, as I'm curious and learning.

Curious and learning are all good, although I'd suggest inquisitive rather than curious ... a five-legged mouse is curious.

And, there are no stupid questions.

 

[Tin cup]

as i will admit.I do have a HS diplomat, I have further ed. in mechanics and welding.

tng6664:

Same here...High School and Vo-Tech welding trained myself!
At age 51, I STILL love welding- building things!

Kevin Dally

 

[johan_steele]

The CS was created to protect, preserve & expand slavery. They were willing to start shooting w/ that reasoning behind their politicos. The CS was willing to forgoe legal channels to preserve & eliminate any threat to slavery. The slaveocracy proved that conclusively well prior to the war.

The US went to war because she was attacked for the sole purpose of putting down a rebellion. The US was willing to work through legal channels to destroy slavery. It took an act of Congress to abolish slavery in the US; Lincoln was no dictator.

US a govt of the people, by the people & for the people which I think Lincoln understood. Davis & friends... not so much.

As i said, i'm not waiting to go Ha! I don't care to get into who was right or wrong. At this point I'm having a hard time understanding, if it was all about slavery why were they freed or able to go freely immediately from the occupied states ? And it took several years later for something big enough to cause war to become law?

 

[Rob9641]

Ok, i can accept this as i will admit.I do have a HS diplomat, I have further ed. in mechanics and welding.Not being a smarta** but the last 22 yrs. hasn't required much Writing. If I offend, it's not intended.

Your lack of writing ability isn't offensive, just frustrating for those of us trying to figure out what you're saying. How much formal education you have isn't remotely important around here - we've all gotten almost all of our Civil War knowledge by reading on our own. The way to learn to write isn't to write more, it's to READ more.

We've got a lot of good writers around here. You can learn to write a coherent sentence just by READING what people here are writing and how they're writing it.

Personally, I don't care if you buy the arguments anybody makes or agree or disagree with the answers you get. I do hope you learn how to write better, and ask deeper questions, and research topics that interest you. And also support your own arguments with hard evidence from documents from the time of the War.

That would be genuinely cool.

 

[Nathanb1]

Ok, i can accept this as i will admit.I do have a HS diplomat, I have further ed. in mechanics and welding.Not being a smarta** but the last 22 yrs. hasn't required much Writing. If I offend, it's not intended.

Then you can do things I can't do. I'm sure I could learn. However, I'm stuck being an English and Social Studies teacher. Writing doesn't hurt anyone. My dad was a huge reader but not much of a writer, for instance. He just didn't practice very much.

First, if there's a topic that interests you. type it in the search box at the top of the page. For instance, if you type Confiscation Acts, you'll pull up threads that have it in them. If you put Lincoln there, guess what? Your computer will explode (just joking!)--but you'll get so many hits it's almost unmanageable. So try typing, for example, Contraband, or maybe Grant and Slavery and see what you get. Browse through those threads. There are great examples of well-written and not so well-written things in all of them.

Second, don't be surprised when you ask a question and it seems you get jumped on. Be happy. You just started a thread that interests folks. And pretty often, when this happens, I laugh to myself because a bunch of us are just trying to rush and answer because we don't want you to give up--not because you've done something negative. It's pretty intimidating, though!

So ask, try not to be offended when we give honest answers, and have fun. Like someone said, what we know is the result of study for years inside and outside classrooms--mostly on our own, if we're honest. This is just who we are and what we do--for better or worse

 

[OpnCoronet]

The goal of the Federal Gov't was always to put down a rebellion, thus reunifying the country. Emancipation was considered a necessary adjunct to achieving the National goal of ending the rebellion and restoring the Union.

 

[tng6664]

Rob9641,"Personally, I don't care if you buy the arguments anybody makes or agree or disagree with the answers you get. I do hope you learn how to write better, and ask deeper questions, and research topics that interest you. And also support your own arguments with hard evidence from documents from the time of the War." Honestly,you probably shouldn't be the one I "learn" from based on your first line. If I had a need to write better other than for this forum, I would.But my job which lets me pay my bills,feed my family,drive vehicles I like,travel when i want doesn't require me to do so. The short time i've been on here i've come across alot of real good people,and some that seem more concerned with the accuracy of writing than discussion.Again if the writing is sometimes hard to follow,I opologise. But i will from this point on do more research for answers,compared to actually engaging breathing humans for different opinons. God forbid anyones panties getting twisted that tight.

 

[K Hale]

The ability to communicate clearly is important in life.

This last post was fine. Some of your others have been a little difficult to read. The thing is, the easier something is to read, the more likely others will read it -- which is what we want them to do, right?

 

[ConfederateGray]

Again if the writing is sometimes hard to follow,I opologise. But i will from this point on do more research for answers,compared to actually engaging breathing humans for different opinons. God forbid anyones panties getting twisted that tight.

Funny. I like this guy.

 

[ole]

As do I, CG. He's obviously working on it and that's all we can ask, isn't it? Didn't care for the "twisted panties" comment, but he's new and gets some slack.

And it is disturbing that he is set upon for not writing good. (Yes, I know the preferred word is "well," but there is a point in there.) I have no problem in understanding what he writes. It is not for any of us to criticize -- we all blow it from time to time.

 

[Nathanb1]

As do I, CG. He's obviously working on it and that's all we can ask, isn't it? Didn't care for the "twisted panties" comment, but he's new and gets some slack.

And it is disturbing that he is set upon for not writing good. (Yes, I know the preferred word is "well," but there is a point in there.) I have no problem in understanding what he writes. It is not for any of us to criticize -- we all blow it from time to time.

I don't think that's why he got the big dose of, "Hey, try this!" Of course, when everyone answers at once, it makes it look a bit overwhelming. He asked--we all answered in good faith. Less like criticizing and more like trying to be helpful. How that's taken is entirely up to the "askee".

 

[tng6664]

Thanx, you guys and gals? I will not keep beating a dead dog.I will try to seperate better to avoid confusion,I understand.I also agree with the importance of being able to communicate effectively,It's just not a part of my daily activities.So iffin's you could while I work on it,Thanx

 

[OpnCoronet]

As a matter of historical fact, tng6664, after Jan. 1, 1863, the U.S. Army did not free any slaves. In the states still in rebellion, the slaves were automatically free, the army merely enforced the law freeing the slaves; much as there are laws against crimes, but there are people who are determined to disobey those laws. All Laws need enforcement , the degree of enforcement depending upon the degree of determination of those who want to break the law.


P.S. Lincoln and Congress were both determined to emancipate the slaves as soon as the war started, because, they saw slavery as the incubus of war. It would defy logic and reason towin a war and leave untouched, the very cause of the war.

 

[OpnCoronet]

Lincoln believed the legality of slavery was strictly a matter of state laws, but he did not favor unrestrictede slavery, rather quite the opposite. That No slavery in the Territories, was a part of a gradual, but general, movement towards eventual emancipation. Even slavery in the state was contingent on the recognition of the existence slavery as being finite.
Slavery in northern states were the last vestiges of of a dead institution, resulting from gradual emancipation and, thus, no threat to the peace and security of the Union or the state.

 

[Rob9641]

Thanx, you guys and gals? I will not keep beating a dead dog.I will try to seperate better to avoid confusion,I understand.I also agree with the importance of being able to communicate effectively,It's just not a part of my daily activities.So iffin's you could while I work on it,Thanx

Happy to be your audience while you work on it. This post was confusion free. I hope you have a good time around here.

 

[OpnCoronet]

Finally, emancipation followed a path of its own, because the south was bound and determined that slavery should not end under any forseeable circumstances. The Federal gov't had no authority to declare emancipation in states, except as a direct adjunct to winning the war, which could be legally rescinded after the war emergency was over. So emancipation was deliberately guaranteed by Constitrutional Amendment.
Lincoln and Congress could have abandoned their responsibilities to their present and future generations of Americans and left them to wreastle with future Civil Wars wars and social upheavels, by winning the war and then letting the temporary emancipation by war power acts to lapse after the war ended, thus winning the war and losing the peace.

 

[tng6664]

Thanx Coronet,once again you've helped me to understand better. I wish not to start another debate over the cause of the war,as i've seen some have very strong views. My opinion as we are all entitled to, is that slavery was one but not the only reason. Some of us born and raised southerners would like to find something to seperate us from that part of the past, there are none facts are facts. The thing that still chaps my???, is whether or not we agree on why they fought,some show a great amount of disrespect for people brave enough to fight regardless of reason. I know in the past the south has been a part of,but not the only reason for some bad things. 150 years later we are still a punching bag for things the whole world has done and some still do today. ............excuse the rambling please..........

 

[Southland]

Funny. I like this guy.

Count me in on this!.