Confederates used some Russian cannons?

[cannonmn]

Russian cannons to Confederacy? This article found by Tony Gero in LOC "Making of America" July 2024. I've never heard of any Russian cannons used by Rebs.

 

[Bruce Allardice]

The problem here is that the British didn't take 80 Russian cannon at the Battle of Inkerman.
Or even 8.
The Russians were attacking. They were repulsed, but the outnumbered British didn't pursue.

 

[Frederick14Va]

If memory serves correctly nearly 4000 Russian cannons were gathered up by the end of the Crimean War. Think England ended up with around 1200 of that number. Majority seemed to have been dispersed throughout the British Empire. Many utilized as war memorial or war trophys. Some reportedly sold or given away to other small countries that had supported their side during the war. Others found a purpose of being used as ship ballast. Seemed many of these went to the scrap metal drives during WW2. While it could be feasible that some were sent over here, I dont recall having seen any mention of their actual use if they did.

 

[cannonmn]

Thx. Jim Bender, the registrar for the National cannon registry, replied:
"No known Russian cannons listed in the Registry.

73 British
18 Austrian
2 Belgian
2 Sweden"

 

[Story]

The article should be subtitled "How to drive the Yankees nuts with tall tales".

If memory serves correctly nearly 4000 Russian cannons were gathered up by the end of the Crimean War. Think England ended up with around 1200 of that number. Majority seemed to have been dispersed throughout the British Empire. Many utilized as war memorial or war trophys. Some reportedly sold or given away to other small countries that had supported their side during the war. Others found a purpose of being used as ship ballast. Seemed many of these went to the scrap metal drives during WW2. While it could be feasible that some were sent over here, I dont recall having seen any mention of their actual use if they did.

Meanwhile, have a thread

Guns of Sevastopol found off of the Bahamas | Cannons / Artillery & Crew Served Weapons

News article on two dozen Russian cannon discovered off of the Bahamas, prevailing theory being that they sent to America as scrap iron during WW2 and when they failed to reach their destination through bureaucratic twists, were quietly dumped by the UK government. Allen Exploration (AllenX)...

civilwartalk.com

 

[Old Soldier]

If memory serves correctly nearly 4000 Russian cannons were gathered up by the end of the Crimean War. Think England ended up with around 1200 of that number. Majority seemed to have been dispersed throughout the British Empire. Many utilized as war memorial or war trophys. Some reportedly sold or given away to other small countries that had supported their side during the war. Others found a purpose of being used as ship ballast. Seemed many of these went to the scrap metal drives during WW2. While it could be feasible that some were sent over here, I dont recall having seen any mention of their actual use if they did.

There indeed were lots of war memorials made of these captured cannon. Here is one from Middlesbrough Yorkshire c 1930:

These were iron cannon, smoothbore, and of little use to the military. Most vanished after 1940, melted down and used by the armaments industry. More info: https://www.osborne.house/profilego.asp?ref=2C3931

It is quite possible that some barrels were shipped to the Confederacy and remounted, but, I suspect, not in any quantity. They were used as ships ballast, so it is possible that some of the ports MAY have, in desperation, used some.

BTW - the old iron street bollards in British cities, mainly London, were old naval cannon captured from the French or made redundant after the Napoleonic Wars and were sealed with an oversize ball hammered into the muzzle. Only the top half was seen, but some were buried muzzle-first:

Modern replacements are still called 'cannon bollards'.
.

 

[RetiredCanuck]

Don't forget that a few were used as the base metal for the original Victoria Crosses.

 

[TallTallMan]

Were they stolen by Brits?

 

[USS ALASKA]

Were they stolen by Brits?

...captured...

Cheers,
USS ALASKA

 

[Old Soldier]

Were they stolen by Brits?

They were some of the Russian fort guns surrendered at Sevastapol. The Brits and the French went halves. They were removed to prevent a rapid refortification of the port.
The Crimean War started because of Russian plans of expansion and the invasion of Ottoman territories in what is now Romania. They then began claiming authority over all Orthodox Christians in the Ottoman Empire, causing concern not only to the Moslem rulers, but also the Roman Catholics whose cause was championed by France. This was because it included access to religious centres in Palestine. The war resulted in the neutralisation of Russian influence in the Black Sea and Dardanelles. This served as a blow to the Russian dream of a warm water naval port in the south. (The British involvement in Afghanistan was also due to 'Russian expansion'.)

The captured guns in the Redan (Sevastopol) 1855
Many were given away too. See https://www.silverhawkauthor.com/post/artillery-in-canada-russian-crimean-war-trophy-guns

The metal of the Victoria Cross since 1914 appear to come from CHINESE cannon and there is no evidence of a Russian origin for the metal beforehand The Russian cannon were mainly IRON.

 

[RetiredCanuck]

They were some of the Russian fort guns surrendered at Sevastapol. The Brits and the French went halves. They were removed to prevent a rapid refortification of the port.
The Crimean War started because of Russian plans of expansion and the invasion of Ottoman territories in what is now Romania. They then began claiming authority over all Orthodox Christians in the Ottoman Empire, causing concern not only to the Moslem rulers, but also the Roman Catholics whose cause was championed by France. This was because it included access to religious centres in Palestine. The war resulted in the neutralisation of Russian influence in the Black Sea and Dardanelles. This served as a blow to the Russian dream of a warm water naval port in the south. (The British involvement in Afghanistan was also due to 'Russian expansion'.)
View attachment 515486
The captured guns in the Redan (Sevastopol) 1855
Many were given away too. See https://www.silverhawkauthor.com/post/artillery-in-canada-russian-crimean-war-trophy-guns

The metal of the Victoria Cross since 1914 appear to come from CHINESE cannon and there is no evidence of a Russian origin for the metal beforehand The Russian cannon were mainly IRON.

Yeah I guess I fell for what seems like an urban myth now. I could have sworn I read it as Gospel some years back.
But we learn from each other. Thanks for posting.

 

[Story]

Yeah I guess I fell for what seems like an urban myth now. I could have sworn I read it as Gospel some years back.
But we learn from each other. Thanks for posting.

Scroll up to post 5, follow the link and you'll find this addressed in that thread awhilst ago.

 

[USS ALASKA]

The Yankee Expedition to Sebastopol by Chuck Veit

At the beginning of the epic siege of Sebastopol in 1854, Russian defenders blocked the entrance to the harbor by sinking several lines of older sailing ships at the mouth of the bay. One year later, as the Czar's forces abandoned the town, the remainder of the Black Sea Fleet, along with a number of transports and merchant vessels, were also scuttled. All told, nearly a hundred ships carpeted the bottom of the bay when British, French and Turkish forces occupied the port. English engineers pronounced the job of raising the hulks an impossibility, and were content to let them rot–a slow process that would ensure the strategic port remained unusable for years to come. But the Russians had a plan, one that involved a young American who, only a few years before, had managed another salvage project deemed "impossible by human means" by "professional" European divers.

Amazon.com

Cheers,
USS ALASKA

 

[Old Soldier]

The Brits policy, along with France and the Ottomans was to leave them there, so Russia would not control the Black Sea. There was no 'impossibilty' about it. The sinking was done deliberately - the words just reinforced the the fact - and the policy.

BTW == Talking of John Gowen and Russian cannon try : https://www.antiquesandthearts.com/russian-field-gun-shoots-to-the-top-of-bruneau-auction/

 

[gary]

Even if Russian cannons were brought over, what caliber and would it require a foundry just to make shells for it? Easier to smelt them down and recast them as 12 pdr Napoleons or what not. Expensive way to pay for metal though.

 

[Story]

Even if Russian cannons were brought over, what caliber and would it require a foundry just to make shells for it? Easier to smelt them down and recast them as 12 pdr Napoleons or what not. Expensive way to pay for metal though.

Most of the Russian guns at Sevastopol were 36 lbers, followed by 24s.

If the tubes were not of a common bore size to take American-cast 36lber projectiles or if the Russian guns weren't shipped with a quantity of projectiles (usually moved as ships' ballast), then I doubt anyone would go through the effort to import them.

https://en.topwar.ru/227674-progress-artillerii-vo-vremja-krymskoj-vojny.html

 

[Pollaco]

Thx. Jim Bender, the registrar for the National cannon registry, replied:
"No known Russian cannons listed in the Registry.

73 British
18 Austrian
2 Belgian
2 Sweden"

This National Cannon Registry is it strictly Civil War cannons? I'd like to contact this Jim Bender. There is a 18 pounder at the Alamo that is supposedly of Swedish origin.

 

[gary]

John Sutter of California's Sutter Fort fame had a cannon fixation or cannon envy. Anytime he came across a cannon he just had to have it. Trouble is there's probably no standardization of ammunition size.

Then again, that Switzer wasn't strictly a military man and whenever he left the fort he had an escort of one soldier who was armed with a brown bess. I'd want an entire platoon with squad doing a volley fire.

BTW, the way the Mexicans (pre-Spanish-American War) used to kill bears was one hombre would rope the bear's paw when it stood. Then his compadre would rope the other and the two would pull for dear life. Keep that bear upright for Macho Hombre #3 who would charge the bear with a spear to kill it.