Living History Confederate Picket on duty.

[curtis payne]

 

[proud texan]

Would like to see that pic clear and crisp if you have it. Great subject presentation by the by!

 

[johan_steele]

Any chance someone might school the youngster on how to actually wear the gear?

 

[proud texan]

I'm not a reenactor; looks cool to me. For future reference, what needs adjustment?

 

[curtis payne]

Would like to see that pic clear and crisp if you have it. Great subject presentation by the by!

Yes I took over 30 photographs of him that are untouched by computer generated graphics. They look very good. I was only allow 5 post so I don't know how I could present them.
The youngster has been schooled on how to actually wear his accutroments, but wore them as I asked him to wear them. He is portraying a soldier in the Indian Nations who didn't really know that much about regulations and cared even less. If you look close enough to note it, much of what he is using doesn't fit him properly, which was also the case here in the Indian Nations. So the fault is mine not his.

 

[curtis payne]

I'm not a reenactor; looks cool to me. For future reference, what needs adjustment?

His accoutroments that is his haversack, his canteen, as examples are hanging to low to be regulation.
Also the way everything is bunched up in front isn't correct for period military order. His canteen sling and well as his haversack sling should be underneath the belt. the cartridge box hangs down to far. I hope that helps.

 

[proud texan]

Yes I took over 30 photographs of him that are untouched by computer generated graphics. They look very good. I was only allow 5 post so I don't know how I could present them.
The youngster has been schooled on how to actually wear his accutroments, but wore them as I asked him to wear them. He is portraying a soldier in the Indian Nations who didn't really know that much about regulations and cared even less. If you look close enough to note it, much of what he is using doesn't fit him properly, which was also the case here in the Indian Nations. So the fault is mine not his.

Well sign up and post 'em looks great!

 

[curtis payne]

Any chance someone might school the youngster on how to actually wear the gear?

sorry I put my reply to you on another post. The fault was mine, as I asked him to wear them that way, he is representing a confederate from Indian Territory, and they didn't care all that much about regulation, and even the officers didn't know that much about the school of the soldier to correctly drill their men in it. Finally the cloths worn and accoutrements if they had them at all probably didn't fit them, which is the case here. But you are of course correct in your assertion. thanks

 

[johan_steele]

No worries Mr Payne.

The cartridge box should be considerably higher, riding on his butt cheek w/ the straps under the belt. That way it doesn't bounce all around and bruise the heck out of you on a march yet is still readily accessible. The haversack & canteen would also be higher though they probably wouldn't be under his belt.

As an infantryman that pistol would be in the belt of a Cav soldier not an Infantryman.

It wasn't uncommon for a soldier to wear every bit of equipment he was issued then push it all around to the front of his body so it could be seen and his status as a soldier would not be in doubt. That would have been a studio shot.

The Trans Mississippi CS soldier was every bit as disciplined as his AoT or ANV equivelant. He wasn't as well equipped and was no where nearly as well led. But like any Army most of the officers learned fast and those of the Trans Mississippi & Indian Territory were as schooled in Drill as their US counterparts, any who say they weren't... need to start reading about how the CS troops looked & acted at places like Wilsons Creek, Pea Ridge etc. They were soldiers, not rank amatuers playing at war. There is a significant difference, the problem is that too many in the hobby don't know that difference.

 

[Robert Gray]

Quartermaster Department photos illustrating accouterments.

 

[curtis payne]

No worries Mr Payne.

The cartridge box should be considerably higher, riding on his butt cheek w/ the straps under the belt. That way it doesn't bounce all around and bruise the heck out of you on a march yet is still readily accessible. The haversack & canteen would also be higher though they probably wouldn't be under his belt.

As an infantryman that pistol would be in the belt of a Cav soldier not an Infantryman.

It wasn't uncommon for a soldier to wear every bit of equipment he was issued then push it all around to the front of his body so it could be seen and his status as a soldier would not be in doubt. That would have been a studio shot.

The Trans Mississippi CS soldier was every bit as disciplined as his AoT or ANV equivelant. He wasn't as well equipped and was no where nearly as well led. But like any Army most of the officers learned fast and those of the Trans Mississippi & Indian Territory were as schooled in Drill as their US counterparts, any who say they weren't... need to start reading about how the CS troops looked & acted at places like Wilsons Creek, Pea Ridge etc. They were soldiers, not rank amatuers playing at war. There is a significant difference, the problem is that too many in the hobby don't know that difference.

 

[curtis payne]

I have read about Wilson Creek and Pea Ridge, both are outside of the Indian Nations, and while it is true that a very small group of confederate participated at pea ridge, and captured a cannon they were also accused of committing atrosities such as scalping the dead. Certainly inside of the nations you are more wrong about your assertion that troops in the Indian Nations were as well schooled and trained, at least from a confederate standpoint. I have researched the Indian Nations in the war for over 25 years now and have looked at just about every document about it. It was very common for the Texas soldiers and Indian troops to carry pistols of all discriptions. They were in poor condition to the point a quarter masters report on conditions of weapons in the nations said he was hard pressed to find one weapon that was complete. In 1864 confederates complained that uniforms intended for them never arrived and the ones on hand at Fort Washita were being held for Indian commands. At that point the 29th Texas and Howell's battery turned their weapons on the commander demanding the opening of the stores. Most indian troops and many texas troop only had homemade uniforms, or made them for themselves. One example is from Howell's battery were they mention getting cloth to make their own uniforms from. I have been to the national archives in Washington DC and held the orginal muster rolls from units involved in the Indian Nations and they contain many notes about lack of disipline and lack of drill even among the officers.
I feel very very confident I can support my assertions. From the standpoint of Union troops you would be correct. Most came from Kansas, Wisc. and colorado and entered the Nations after already being trained. That isnt' true for the majority of Confederate forces in the Nations.

 

[johan_steele]

Then, by your own info, you don't have pic of a soldier from the Nation. You have a young man in a nice pretty uniform wearing gear in such a way that it's clear he's never marched or fought w/ it.

 

[curtis payne]

That is one possibility, or I could have a pic of a soldier from the Nation that fashoned his uniform out of material purchased in Baton Rouge La. brought back to the Indian nations just as was reported by Howell's Texas Battery in 1864 and fashioned into a uniform as prescribed in early war instructions, wearing accoutrements that don't fit him properly and hasn't had training in the correct method of wearing them. that happens to be what I was going for when I made the photo.