Recent Find Colt powder flask engraving

[Woods-walker]

We've had snow and ice on the ground here in Virginia for close to two weeks and it's put a halt to my relic hunting season. But just before it hit us I took a little time to go digging and unearthed this Colt powder flask engraving in a camp site near Fredericksburg. I placed a breastplate beside it to give an idea of size.
First photo is outside shot followed by reverse shot then with a breastplate

 

[UCVRelics]

Very Nice. The rest wasn't close by?

 

[Woods-walker]

Lol. I hunted the entire hill it was on. And then my relic hunting friend went over it to no avail (we found items but not related to that). My hunting buddy is the best and luckiest in the business. If it had been there he would have found it. I think they must have been tacked on with solder or pressed on somehow.
We and my brother are the only ones who know about the camp site so I am sure the rest either isn't there or hasn't been found. I tend to think the former.
The three of us have hunted the site for several years. It's a small camp and likely a winter picket post.

 

[Peter Stines]

It looks like the flask for an 1849 "Baby" Dragoon and similar pocket sized revolvers in .31 caliber. It could be Colt Mfg. but not sure. There were a LOT of forgeries of Colt products back then.
If you can snag a copy, beg, borrow, steal or otherwise get Riling's POWDER FLASK BOOK. Out of print. Great source, just wish it was in color.
And with Colt just about anything by Ron Wilson, James Severin or Arnold Chernoff is a gold mine. The color photos of the cased sets in Wilson's books are fantastic
(COLT LEGACY)

 

[Woods-walker]

It looks like the flask for an 1849 "Baby" Dragoon and similar pocket sized revolvers in .31 caliber. It could be Colt Mfg. but not sure. There were a LOT of forgeries of Colt products back then.
If you can snag a copy, beg, borrow, steal or otherwise get Riling's POWDER FLASK BOOK. Out of print. Great source, just wish it was in color.
And with Colt just about anything by Ron Wilson, James Severin or Arnold Chernoff is a gold mine. The color photos of the cased sets in Wilson's books are fantastic
(COLT LEGACY)

@Peter Stines - really appreciate the information. Didn't know much about this, only what I could find online. I originally thought it was a hat badge.
Interesting that there were a LOT of forgeries back then.
I appreciate all the insightful info. I would have thought it was for something a lot larger caliber than .31 based on the size.

 

[major bill]

This is a nice find and will make an interesting addition to any relic display.

 

[Woods-walker]

Thanks @major bill . The memory of being with my best friend when found is worth more than the item. We've been best friends since 1955 and have walked many a mile together looking for artifacts. This was one of the few trips together that I got the best find.

 

[Peter Stines]

Another rolling mental blackout. I forgot to ask the size; length, width. Don't need thickness. I can make comparisons for positive I D. Then too it could be an insignia.

 

[Peter Stines]

@Peter Stines - really appreciate the information. Didn't know much about this, only what I could find online. I originally thought it was a hat badge.
Interesting that there were a LOT of forgeries back then.
I appreciate all the insightful info. I would have thought it was for something a lot larger caliber than .31 based on the size.

Colt spent a fortune in Patent and Copyright infringements in the courts. Henry Deringer took his share of copyright thieves to court.

 

[Woods-walker]

Interesting. I will get the measurements to you.

 

[Woods-walker]

Looks like about 2 1/2 by 2 1/4 . You mentioned yesterday there were a lot of forgeries. Is there any way to tell or we're the forgeries that good?

 

[ConfederateCanuck]

When I first saw the dimensions, my instinct was to say it was a flask for a Colt 1849 Pocket. After measuring my reproduction flask for that gun, I still think its the flask for 1849 Pocket. Pics attached below showing dimensions (but note that if your relic is somewhat flattened, as it appears to be, it will look bigger than it would have been when it was intact and had a rounded profile)

.

 

[Woods-walker]

Thanks. It's not flat it is convex (front) and (concave in the back). Hard to say. I have to rely on more expertise like you and @Peter Stines . I ve never seen one for any caliber or a reproduction for that matter.

 

[Peter Stines]

So we're on the right track. The distorted or flattened appearance tells me it was probably dropped in the mud and got lost. It got stepped on a time or two breaking the solder and seam. The top with the spout may still be fairly close by under the soil. Black powder will eat up brass and copper and that could explain the jaggety holes. The raised eagle like other flasks of the period were generally stamped. Some are well done and some looked almost cartoony. Fake or period copy ? That can be a can of worms. Sometimes dimensions were slightly off compared to the real deal. Shoddy workmanship is another. I'll leave that one for someone more knowledgeable than me to answer. It will be a toughie because you don't have all of it but if you find the rest "post some of them thar color daguerrotypes" Good Luck

 

[Peter Stines]

Thanks. It's not flat it is convex (front) and (concave in the back). Hard to say. I have to rely on more expertise like you and @Peter Stines . I ve never seen one for any caliber or a reproduction for that matter.

The flasks for these smaller pistols usually threw a 12-15 powder charge. So it could work with a derringer type pistol, small revolver, a "pepperbox" and in some cases a small squirrel rifle. In other words these flasks were intended for .25 to .31 guns but could also work with bigger shootin' irons. I saw a collection of hunting bags made/used in the Appallachian Mountain area before the war and well into the 20th century. A LOT of those bags held a small pocket flask as you have. There were quite a few Colt marked bullet molds w/ the bags. The smaller sized molds were just the right size for those "hog rifles".

 

[Woods-walker]

Lol Peter. Much appreciated. A new road is going through the middle and we've hunted the place well. I am sure no other parts are there. But if we find them i'll post photos.
Many thanks I ve learned a lot.

 

[Woods-walker]

The flasks for these smaller pistols usually threw a 12-15 powder charge. So it could work with a derringer type pistol, small revolver, a "pepperbox" and in some cases a small squirrel rifle. In other words these flasks were intended for .25 to .31 guns but could also work with bigger shootin' irons. I saw a collection of hunting bags made/used in the Appallachian Mountain area before the war and well into the 20th century. A LOT of those bags held a small pocket flask as you have. There were quite a few Colt marked bullet molds w/ the bags. The smaller sized molds were just the right size for those "hog rifles".

I also have a powder horn I purchased at auction. I ll shoot a photo or two your way tomorrow. You and @ConfederateCanuck are the most knowledgeable in these that I ve run into.

 

[Peter Stines]

Hey them's fightin' words! JUST KIDDING! I'm glad we could help.

 

[ConfederateCanuck]

Don't forget...the 1849 Pocket was the biggest selling Colt...340,000 total made in all, but some 240,000 were in existence by 1865. So, it is a very likely candidate.

As for being an expert, I am not. But I have a couple of Pockets, and the repro flask, and I do shoot them so that makes me "knowledgeable". Happy to help...that's what this Forum is all about.

So when are you taking me on a Relic hunt? (droooolllllllll......)

 

[Peter Stines]

Relic hunt ? I thought that was what 20 something college age gals did. Looking for a rich old coot to be their sugar daddy.
No danger of that in my case....