Civil War Virginia Uniform?

[CoeurPaxton]

Hello,
I am attempting to load a digital photo of a Confederate soldier in my family. He was a West Point cadet that left his last year to join his friends in the sixty-first regiment of Virginia. He became a Lt. Col. and died at Spottsylvania Court House.
Please advise how I can load the digital photo on my laptop to identify the uniform that looks different from others I have seen.
Thank you.

 

[CMWinkler]

Welcome. Now hit upload file and your photo should be uploaded for view.

 

[Deleted member 8452]

Hello,
I am attempting to load a digital photo of a Confederate soldier in my family. He was a West Point cadet that left his last year to join his friends in the sixty-first regiment of Virginia. He became a Lt. Col. and died at Spottsylvania Court House.
Please advise how I can load the digital photo on my laptop to identify the uniform that looks different from others I have seen.
Thank you.

the 61st Virginia was made up of men from Southern Virginia, a monument to the 61st Virginia stands not far from where I live in Chesapeake, Virginia.

I would recommend getting the 61st Virginia Regimental Book by Benjamin H Trask.

Is this him? Lt Colonel William Frederick Niemeyer
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=28913155

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=37651714

The Uniform he is wearing is a gray cadet uniform worn by all members of the U.S. Army cadets at West Point.

 

[CoeurPaxton]

the 61st Virginia was made up of men from Southern Virginia, a monument to the 61st Virginia stands not far from where I live in Chesapeake, Virginia.

I would recommend getting the 61st Virginia Regimental Book by Benjamin H Trask.

View attachment 73884

Is this him? Lt Colonel William Frederick Niemeyer
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=28913155

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=37651714

View attachment 73885
View attachment 73886



The Uniform he is wearing is a gray cadet uniform worn by all members of the U.S. Army cadets at West Point.

Yes,
Thank you. That is him. However I have this painting of W.F. Niemeyer in another uniform.
Any ideas? It is so very different than others.
Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 8452]

Yes,
Thank you. That is him. However I have this painting of W.F. Niemeyer in another uniform.
Any ideas? It is so very different than others.
Thank you.
View attachment 73905 View attachment 73905 View attachment 73905

Looks Like a Very Early Confederate Officers uniform, notice how its almost have a blue/gray hint to it and have the more "federal" type of shoulder rank insignias rather than the neck collar insignias and gold braided arm sleeves more common with confederate soldiers in the late war period.

My guess is this picture was taken around 1861 right around William's initial enlistment. Probably when he was elected to serve in the 7th Virginia Battalion before it was folded into the 61st Virginia Infantry Regiment.

Here's an example this is another Lt.Col, Lt.Colonel Powhatan Whittle of the 38th Virginia Infantry, notice the darker hue on his uniform and the presence of the more "federal" looking shoulder insignias rather than the confederate braid sleeves and collar rankings. This picture was taken just after he was elected to the newly formed 38th Virginia Regiment.

 

[Deleted member 8452]

Around William's death and later service, his uniform probably looked something more like this.

 

[7thWisconsin]

I don't think that's a Confederate uniform at all. I think that's his West Point furlough uniform, which was like the junior officer uniform without shoulder boards. Since he has shoulder boards, but not sash or sword, I'm going to hazard a guess that the portrait was made very, very early in his Confederate career when many officers were still wearing Federal clothing.

 

[CoeurPaxton]

Around William's death and later service, his uniform probably looked something more like this.

View attachment 73908
View attachment 73907

Seth,
Thank you so very much. You really know your stuff! Our family could never figure out why it did not look like other uniforms of the day. I will definitely research that book you noted.
One more bit, what is that cord attached to his belt? All I could think of was a watch - or rosary beads. We are not Catholics, but Episcopalians so the rosary is most probably not correct.

 

[CoeurPaxton]

I don't think that's a Confederate uniform at all. I think that's his West Point furlough uniform, which was like the junior officer uniform without shoulder boards. Since he has shoulder boards, but not sash or sword, I'm going to hazard a guess that the portrait was made very, very early in his Confederate career when many officers were still wearing Federal clothing.

Hi 7th Wisconsin,
Thank you for your superb input. Now I'm really confused.
What is that item hanging from his belt?

 

[Pvt.Shattuck]

I don't think that's a Confederate uniform at all. I think that's his West Point furlough uniform, which was like the junior officer uniform without shoulder boards. Since he has shoulder boards, but not sash or sword, I'm going to hazard a guess that the portrait was made very, very early in his Confederate career when many officers were still wearing Federal clothing.

I agree. That is a dark blue Federal uniform.

 

[major bill]

I agree with 7th Wisconsin. When cadets went on furlough they wore army officer style blue frock coats. I believe the cadets wore their blue frock coats without insignia. I will have to search for photographs but this might be his blue frock coat with federal style should boards added. What may have happened is he wore his blue furlough frack coat with federal style rank until he purchased a gray frock coat.

 

[Frederick14Va]

Yes,
Thank you. That is him. However I have this painting of W.F. Niemeyer in another uniform.
Any ideas? It is so very different than others.
Thank you.
View attachment 73905 View attachment 73905 View attachment 73905

Question.. what is the medium that this image is on?... paper or heavy cardstock ?

 

[Deleted member 8452]

I don't think that's a Confederate uniform at all. I think that's his West Point furlough uniform, which was like the junior officer uniform without shoulder boards. Since he has shoulder boards, but not sash or sword, I'm going to hazard a guess that the portrait was made very, very early in his Confederate career when many officers were still wearing Federal clothing.

Your are Right, that was probably his federal uniform he wore, similar to Jackson and other CSA generals who continued to wear their U.S. Army uniforms in the early stages of the war.

 

[CoeurPaxton]

I agree. That is a dark blue Federal uniform.

Thank you so very much.

 

[CoeurPaxton]

Question.. what is the medium that this image is on?... paper or heavy cardstock ?

Hi Federick14VA,
I just had it re-matted in its fame last year, however I believe it was heavier paper. I had a terrible electrical fire in my NC home from the previous owner's "personal" wiring. This was saved because it was framed tight behind glass. My oil paintings and other watercolors were all lost either to heat or water. My insurance had no idea what it was worth if it had been lost.
Any ideas, so I may update my insurance man?
Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 8452]

Here is the flag and Monument to the 61st Virginia Infantry

The Flag is at Appomattox
The Monument is in South Chesapeake

 

[CoeurPaxton]

I agree with 7th Wisconsin. When cadets went on furlough they wore army officer style blue frock coats. I believe the cadets wore their blue frock coats without insignia. I will have to search for photographs but this might be his blue frock coat with federal style should boards added. What may have happened is he wore his blue furlough frack coat with federal style rank until he purchased a gray frock coat.

Thank you Major Bill.

 

[CoeurPaxton]

Here is the flag and Monument to the 61st Virginia Infantry

The Flag is at Appomattox
The Monument is in South Chesapeake

View attachment 73918
View attachment 73919

Thank you Seth.
William lost his younger brother Lieutenant John Chandler Niemeyer at Gettysburg.

 

[Deleted member 8452]

Thank you Seth.
William lost his younger brother Lieutenant John Chandler Niemeyer at Gettysburg.

Yes he was in the 9th Virginia In Armistead's Brigade. The other son Henry Niemeyer was also in the 9th Virginia Infantry too.


was his mother's maiden surname Chandler???

I wonder if his mother's family goes back to John Chandler of Jamestown.

 

[Frederick14Va]

Hi Federick14VA,
I just had it re-matted in its fame last year, however I believe it was heavier paper. I had a terrible electrical fire in my NC home from the previous owner's "personal" wiring. This was saved because it was framed tight behind glass. My oil paintings and other watercolors were all lost either to heat or water. My insurance had no idea what it was worth if it had been lost.
Any ideas, so I may update my insurance man?
Thank you.

I don't think this is actually a "painting" at all... This is a photo copy print made from an existing (usually smaller) photograph. These were produced onto cabinet cards (heavy paper like material)... basically it is a photograph of a photograph... normally found enlarged from its original format..... Problem was when you took a pic of a pic, the smaller details tend to get washed out and its more grainy... Solution was an artist would retouch the image.. redefining the facial and clothing outlines and features.. and commonly they will be colored/tinted in... typically give the appearance of a water color type of painting...

The color of the uniform we see is relative.. since this was a artist colored concept rendering when the copy was made.. probably 40-50 years after the original image was taken... If you look at the background features it is not tinted nor colored.. the column details are sharp and has shadows... it looks like a generic background in many other period photos... ... compare that to the lack of detail with his uniform features... not even close to the same... Since its been retraced and colored over... Unfortunately it also tends to muddy and mask the button, waist belt plate, and any insignia details the subject may be wearing... Which is one of the reasons I believe this is a copy photo that has been tinted/colored.. Ive seen and examined many of these that are existing out there.. most that Ive seen with provenance appeared to have been made around the 1900-1920ish era or so... This generally also sparks the question.. where the heck is the original image this was taken from...