Civil War 1858 Pattern Shako

[gregory128]

Good evening Ladies and Gentleman, thanks for letting me join this forum. I must admit I'm not a big Civil War collector as I usually focus on late 19th century British Militaria so this one will be going on the market fairly soon. However, for the time being, I need a bit of help. I have recently acquired this lovely example of a French Import 1858 Pattern Confederate Shako with a very rare Artillery Militia Shako Plate from around 1834. What I need help with at this stage is identifying the markings inside the actual helmet. Unfortunately, the label which appears to show the owners name is mostly gone however underneath the label appears a 7BF? (I think) Any ideas what this means? In addition, a C is inscribed on the rim, again suggestions? The Smithsonian mentions the plate is a stock pattern and was used for over 30 years, however, does anyone have any pictures of this particular plate being used during the early part of the civil war?

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Any help kindly appreciated, Greg.

 

[major bill]

How do you know it is a Confederate item? I see nothing that would indicate it is from a Southern militia company rather than a Northern militia company. I also see nothing that indicates it is Civil War era and not post Civil War era.

 

[Package4]

Good evening Ladies and Gentleman, thanks for letting me join this forum. I must admit I'm not a big Civil War collector as I usually focus on late 19th century British Militaria so this one will be going on the market fairly soon. However, for the time being, I need a bit of help. I have recently acquired this lovely example of a French Import 1858 Pattern Confederate Shako with a very rare Artillery Militia Shako Plate from around 1834. What I need help with at this stage is identifying the markings inside the actual helmet. Unfortunately, the label which appears to show the owners name is mostly gone however underneath the label appears a 7BF? (I think) Any ideas what this means? In addition, a C is inscribed on the rim, again suggestions? The Smithsonian mentions the plate is a stock pattern and was used for over 30 years, however, does anyone have any pictures of this particular plate being used during the early part of the civil war?

bromide chemical formula

Any help kindly appreciated, Greg.

You have a very nice French Shako as imported by the US, unfortunately a different cap plate has been added. The markings are typical company markings that are found on virtually all of these shakos, I have three with the same markings. These were not imported by the Confederate States.

 

[Package4]

View attachment 204989 What it should look like:

 

[Package4]

The entire uniform as originally issued to the 18th MA, 83rd and 62nd PA and regiments of the NY Excelsior Brigade, there were approximately 10,000 sets of these uniforms and shakos purchased from France by the US. Most of the shakos were later sold to Bannerman's, most likely where the artillery cap plate was added.

 

[captaindrew]

Welcome to the forum Greg, cool piece

 

[Legion Para]

You have a very nice French Shako as imported by the US, unfortunately a different cap plate has been added. The markings are typical company markings that are found on virtually all of these shakos, I have three with the same markings. These were not imported by the Confederate States.

I agree with @Package4.

 

[gregory128]

Hi guys, ah okay, thanks for the input. Considering that the plate was used for the next 20/30 years post 1840, do you not think there is a possibility that the plate is at all original to the uniform?

 

[Yankeedave]

Hello and Welcome to the forum.

 

[UCVRelics]

Welcome From THE Heart Of Dixie. @Package4 is spot on with his assessment.

 

[Package4]

Anything is truly possible, but the plate is artillery and the Pom Pom is not. What you do have is a shako in very good condition, that could have been used post war as a militia piece. The real money would be that it was acquired by Bannerman and pieces added subsequently, to make it more appealing for sale. Bannerman was famous for enhancing his surplus which he was able to purchase for pennies on the dollar.

I just finished an account last evening where Bannerman was able to acquire Merrill carbines for as little as .05 each, in bulk.

The condition of your shako is better than most and markings indicate that it was truly issued to a soldier. You can sell as is, bring it back to its original configuration or simply sell the cap plate separately and shako same.

Regardless, it is a piece of history and should be treated as such, congratulations on a great acquisition.

I'll do a little more research on Pom Pom and plate.

 

[Package4]

Researching a little more, it appears as if the plate is extremely rare, in fact it is not included in "American Military Headgear Insignia" by Mike O'Donnell and J. Duncan Campbell. I consider this study, the finest of its kind, that said, they readily admit that new finds are discovered all of the time.

The Pom Pom holder is not original to the cap and the BF letters, under the brim, are found on many of these shakos, eliminating the possibility that these might be the soldiers initials.

More to come

 

[James N.]

These are the types of shako plates that were originally used on this shako. Your plate with crossed cannon and flaming bomb is very much like the insignia of French artillery of the Second Empire that appears on several buttons in my collection, all backmarked Paris. The Spanish artillery used a similar device, but topped with a crown; I have a couple of those too.

Welcome to the forums!

 

[James N.]

View attachment 204991 The entire uniform as originally issued to the 18th MA, 83rd and 62nd PA and regiments of the NY Excelsior Brigade, there were approximately 10,000 sets of these uniforms and shakos purchased from France by the US. Most of the shakos were later sold to Bannerman's, most likely where the artillery cap plate was added.

Supposedly, when these uniforms were issued to one of the regiments (I forget which one) in the AOP as the prize for winning army-wide drill competition, it was found that most were too SMALL to fit Americans!

 

[Seduzal]

Welcome to CWT from the Smoky Mountain side of North Carolina.

 

[gregory128]

Thanks for the info people. Your support has been very helpful but i would encourage you to double check the images. The print screens i have attached are from a study by the smithsonian in the 70's mentioning the above plate. I will attach a link to the book on sunday when i return.

 

[James N.]

Thanks for the info people. Your support has been very helpful but i would encourage some of you to double check the images. The print screens i have attached are from a study by the smithsonian in the 70's mentioning the above plate. I will attach a link to the book on sunday when i return.

Do note that at least as far as the plate is concerned, the text reads "This specimen... is a copy of the French artillery device... and... may be a foreign insignia."

 

[gregory128]

@Package4, so in regards to the secondary source I attached, the plate mentioned came from the very book you included, American Military Insignia by Duncan Cambell in 1963. If you consult page 62, you should be able to find the exact same plate.

 

[Package4]

@Package4, so in regards to the secondary source I attached, the plate mention came from the very book you mentioned, American Military Insignia by Duncan Cambell in 1963. If you consult page 62, you should be able to find the exact same plate.

I don't believe there is a question as to the plate, I think that may very well be the most valuable piece of the ensemble. The book that I reference was written in 2004. Since the piece is not referenced there, it puts it in a very rare category.

I still believe that the shako is a put together most likely by Bannerman, these shakos were not used very much as the soldiers complained about their discomfort while wearing. They soon went into storage, almost 10,000 shakos. Bannerman purchased much of the surplus in the late 1860s. The cap plate alone is most likely worth more than a shako with correct Pom Pom and insignia.

The plate is considered a half sunburst pattern.

 

[Package4]

View attachment 205023

These are the types of shako plates that were originally used on this shako. Your plate with crossed cannon and flaming bomb is very much like the insignia of French artillery of the Second Empire that appears on several buttons in my collection, all backmarked Paris. The Spanish artillery used a similar device, but topped with a crown; I have a couple of those too.

Welcome to the forums!

James N is exactly correct, aFrench Artillery shako with correct artillery adornment would look as follows: