Cavalry Saber Help Needed

[cdt486]

Good evening,

I need some help in regards to me possibly purchasing a sword.

The sword is a 1860 model cavalry saber. The only identifiable mark on the sword is a "T" marked on the ricasso. I believe this may have been an officer's sword because there is a floral design on the handguard and it goes up the third ring of the knuckle bow and is also on the pommel. The sword has the original washer, and wire grip. The scabbard has no dents on it, but the scabbard also has no identifiable marks on it. Asking price on it is $1,200. Should I be interested in purchasing or just walk away??

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

Walk away and send me the address of the seller. Seriously though, it is hard to say without having actually seen the sword, its condition, etc. Is the blade etched? What is used to cover the grip - shark skin or leather? Your sword sounds like an officer's model by Tomes. Ordinarily officers' swords had etched blades and shark skin grips, but not always. If it is in decent condition, I believe the price is quite reasonable.

 

[cdt486]

Upon further research this sword was photographed and published in Civil War Cavalry and Artillery Sabers by John Thillmann pg. 152

 

[James N.]

Upon further research this sword was photographed and published in Civil War Cavalry and Artillery Sabers by John Thillmann pg. 152

If it's undeniably the same sword I'd say it's certainly a good price. The only caveat I'd add is that our M.1840's and by extension M.1860's are both derived from the French M.1822 so share the decoration on the hilt you describe which was particular to officers. I've seen regulation French swords and sabers fobbed off to unsuspecting buyers as "Civil War swords", so buyer beware on that account. Unlike enlisted men's cavalry sabers, officers' are pretty uncommon so command a higher price and I think if genuine that's a good buy!

 

[Glen_C]

I have a green car. Can you tell me when it last got an oil change? The radio is only AM. Can you tell me what year the car was made? I think it has vent windows. Does that mean it was made in Detroit?

Please always be as vague as possible when asking others for opinions

 

[cdt486]

I took these pictures today. The seller states he will provide providence of this sword being in that book. Please let me know what you guys think!!

 

[cdt486]

I have a green car. Can you tell me when it last got an oil change? The radio is only AM. Can you tell me what year the car was made? I think it has vent windows. Does that mean it was made in Detroit?

Please always be as vague as possible when asking others for opinions

Thanks for the help Richard Cranium!

 

[Glen_C]

I took these pictures today. The seller states he will provide providence of this sword being in that book. Please let me know what you guys think!!

Provenance

 

[UCVRelics]

There were many of this same sword made and most have the "T" stamp so I'm trying to figure out how there is any provenance on this swords. "JUST SAYn"

 

[cdt486]

The seller has documentation from the author John Thillmann that this is the sword that is in the book.

 

[UCVRelics]

Well that's your call but unless he has provenance as to who owned it then it's just sword that has been published in a book.

 

[Glen_C]

The book attributions for swords rarely commands a premium. If it is a super rare sword, or owned by someone of great note during the ACW; that might be a consideration. Otherwise, paying an inflated price for "bragging rights" is really very subjective.

As we cannot judge the overall condition of the sword, it becomes even more subjective. I own swords from some serious long time (many decades) collectors and even from authors but the swords were nothing really special and sold at street prices.

That said, there are a sword or two I have considered that were listed in books and are selling at a premium. They haven't sold yet.

Cheers

GC

 

[kevikens]

I don't want to muddy the waters here but I do have a modest sword collection which includes two Model 1860's, two Model 1840's, a French Model 1822, (probably post CW from the scabbard) which I bought mistaking it for a Model 1840 at an antiques show, as well as a number of other assorted original hunting swords, artillery swords, sabers, etc. I do not claim to be an expert on edged weapons, or anything else, either, but it is my experience that being able to handle any artifact, be it edged weapon, firearm, accoutrement, coin or currency, photo, clothing, document, etc., to get a 'feel' for the object, is a real help in determining if I want the object. Can you do that with this sword? Perhaps take a collector friend with you. If, after hefting the weapon, looking at its eye appeal, you will be happy with your purchase, go ahead but sometimes photos just do not provide the kind of information to make an informed purchase that you will be happy with. I do hope the OP will tell us what he subsequently finds out about his potential purchase.

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

I looked at Thillmann's work. He pictured two examples of this sword, the first of which looks like it could indeed be the one pictured in your post. If not, it certainly shows your sword is absolutely right for a Tomes M1860 officer's sword. If you don't buy it, please send me a private message with the seller's contact info - I'd certainly be interested.

 

[cdt486]

This is the last photo I took, but would not download yesterday. Today it works "Technology".
I appreciate everybody's input. To the best of my limited knowledge with collecting as you guys know who have read my introduction, I believe this sword to be in excellent condition for its age and I also believe the price to be fair.

 

[kevikens]

This is the last photo I took, but would not download yesterday. Today it works "Technology".
I appreciate everybody's input. To the best of my limited knowledge with collecting as you guys know who have read my introduction, I believe this sword to be in excellent condition for its age and I also believe the price to be fair.

Yes, that certainly has eye appeal.

 

[Glen_C]

Just an observation and I may be wrong but the piece appears to have been heavily cleaned and "restored" ("scraped" is what I regard them. I've done a few myself). Is that bluing on the blade?

Cheers

GC