Carrying percussion caps.

[krank]

This is interesting, if you look at this YT clip of Gettysburg during the Battle of LRT you see "Chamberlain" clearly has the pistol disassembled, it's at the 3:27 mark on the clip... I know the movie is not authoritative, but they did have historical advisers present during filming of the movie... no reason for him to pull the wedge and remove the barrel if he is trying to reload using cartridges, so he must be swapping out a preloaded cylinder:

I have had to knock the pin out to remove a jammed spent cap or fix a bullet that shifted forward preventing cylinder from turning. However, it is entirely possible that somebody swapped a cylinder on a Colt in 1861.
I read an account that Frank James tried to work on an 1860 Colt pistol while mounted at the Battle of Centralia. He lost all the pieces and never found them.

 

[krank]

The Polish Capper is 185 in polish currency, its about $50 shipped for their top of the line brass capper, the plastic capper is $20 and that is the one that I have. I use the straight Ted Cash capper, had to modify it some to get it work well but I like it on my Colt SAA.

You are right. I saw the "185" and closed the page. For $47 I might go for that.

 

[BillWright]

I have an original instruction on how to use an enfield bullet. This was written Josiah Gorgas from the Macon Ga ordinance lab.

 

[Booner]

"They charged into the thicket with bridled reins in their teeth and a revolver (10 inch Navy) in each hand." p60 from "the Diary of a Private Soldier" by Henry Whipple. I think he meant 8", as I am not aware of the 1851 Colt Navy being manufactured with a 10" barrel.

Still looking into sources on how officers reloaded their pistols during combat... perhaps you can show me your research here and that may help some.

These Calvary, according to pvt. Whipple, we're members of the Kansas 26th regiment of Cavalry, although KS didn't have a 26th regiment of cavalry. I'm going to assume he meant the 7th KS Cavalry, who's nickname was Jennison Jayhawkers.
Since the 7th had some experience earlier in the war fighting MO guerrillas, and they were not your typical cavalry regiment, (they were sent out of MO to fight east of the Miss. River due to their reputation for thievery amoungst other things), it just could be that they went into battle with two pistols, but that was not the norm.

 

[mofederal]

Missouri women helped to enable the guerrilla war throughout the state. Early in the war the Union army clamped a decree of martial law on the entire state. But Erwin notes that federal outposts were small and scattered, leaving lots of opportunities for guerrillas to seize. Some of the guerrillas hardly fit the popular image of ill-clad horsemen.

"In mid-1862, Maggie Creath and Lizzie Powell were suspected of having smuggled fifty thousand percussion caps out of Hannibal in their petticoats and given them to guerrillas. Creath 'made quite a sensation' when she appeared with a guerrilla named Clay Price in Monroe County, decked out in Rebel colors and with 'a brace of pistols ornamenting her taper waist.' The local commanders noted that the two women's 'beauty, talents and superior education have made many a man a bushwhacker who except for their influence would have been an honest man." 1

Another example of guerrilla supporters aiding the efforts of their men or kin is some of the women arrested and held in Kansas City who were injured or died in the infamous prison collapse.

"Some of these women and girls were arrested on the public roads and others were taken from the privacy of their home; all were held without bond or bail, awaiting transport and a trial in St. Louis. Some were caught red-handed with percussion caps, lead, and gunpowder, while others were arrested for having bolts of cloth known to be used for sewing guerrilla shirts. Some were suspected spies, some were caught with large stashes of cash thought to be suspicious, and still others were arrested to serve as hostages, only because they were known relatives of men living in the brush. The growing number of women and young girls awaiting transport to St. Louis for trial soon exhausted the safe and clean places that could house them in Kansas City." 2

1. The Homefront in Civil War Missouri by James W. Erwin
2. Collapse of the Union Women's Prison in Kansas City by Tony O' Bryan

 

[mofederal]

Here is some information on two of the ladies mentioned in the last post from Official Records.

During mid to late September 1862 two local ladies, Misses Mildred Elizabeth "Lizzie" Powell and Margaret "Maggie" Creath, used a carriage to travel from Monroe County to Hannibal, Marion County, and purchase 50,000 percussion caps for the guerrillas or Rebel recruits of the area. These young women were bedecked in "rebel colors", wearing pistols and traveled in the company of guerrilla or Rebel recruiter CPT Clay Price while giving speeches in support of the Confederacy around Monroe County.

Union authorities in the area had no choice but to arrest the attractive but spirited pair in late September and placed them in a form of house arrest at Elder Creath's home. They were permitted this form of parole provided they "abstain from writing and talking treason". No guards were placed over them provided they follow those directions. Later, Miss Powell was permitted to remain at liberty provided she remain in the town of Hannibal. Eventually the pair was banished from the state, probably in 1863 when that became a favorite method of handling troublesome southern citizens in Missouri.

------------

"…two noted Confederates were captured. They were accused of conveying information and of furnishing arms and ammunition to the Rebels. There may have been some truth to the charge brought against them. 'The story goes, that beautiful and highly educated, and enthusiastic Rebels "borrowed" a brand new five-hundred dollar carriage from a citizen, friendly with the cause, and no escort, except for a negro boy, for the "driver" went to Hannibal some sixty miles distance, safely returning in a few days, the carriage loaded with ammunition, navy revolvers, and other needful supplies for the Rebels. The supplies were safely hidden away, and the Federals only succeeded in capturing the carriage, which they confiscated, and the girls. These they held, separately, in solitary confinement for some time, in an old church of the neighborhood, they sent them as prisoners to Hannibal, finally banishing them from the state."

------------

Missouri State Militia

December 13, 1862

HQ Second Cavalry

Brigadier-General Merrill;

Commanding Northeastern District of Missouri.

General:

I have the honor to acknowledge receipt of your order of the 12th​ ordering full statement of causes of arrest of Misses Lizzie Powel and Maggie Creath and a report of the manner of their confinement. Having no official connection with these young ladies or control over their detention I called upon Colonel Strachan, late provost-marshal general of their district, whose reply I have the honor to (enclose). The active disloyalty of these two women is notorious and their beauty, talents and superior education have made many a man a bushwhacker who except for their influence would have been an honest man. They are even openly and persistently disloyal. I regard them as each of sufficient importance to either justify a strict (surveillance) or banishment from the state.

I have the honor to be your (obedient) servant,

John McNeil

Brigadier-General, Missouri State Militia

------------

Palmyra, Missouri

December 13, 1862

General McNeil:

Sir, In answer to your inquiries about Misses Powell and Creath, the evidence sent to the office from Doctor Hueston, near Santa Fe, I think, and several others, established that these young ladies had taken a carriage of Armstead Botts of Monroe County, driven it to Hannibal and brought out under the protection of the petticoat flag a (quantity) of gun caps, some 50,000 and other essentials to the guerillas.


Miss Creath made quite a sensation in Monroe County, traveling with one Clay Price, a noted captain of guerillas, dressed in rebel colors and a brace of rebel pistols ornamenting her taper waist. Their influence, being young ladies of large talking propensities, was particularly pernicious, they openly declaring that they acknowledge the authority of no Government but that of "Jeff Davis, the noblest and wisest man that ever graced a presidential chair." Their causes were submitted by me to Colonel Grant, provost-marshal general and he advised their banishment from the State, but gave me no written order to that effect. The manner of their detention has been on their personal parole that they abstain from writing and talking treason. They remained at the home of Elder Creath without guard and Miss Powell has since been allowed the liberty of Hannibal, her native town.

I am, very respectfully,

William R. Strachan

Provost-Marshall, Palmyra.

Sources: "O.R." series 2, vol. 5, p. 78; C.M. Farthing, "Chronicles of Monroe County," 1904 as reprinted in 1997, pp. 29-30; Missouri Chapter of United Daughters of the Confederacy, "Reminiscences," about 1913, pp. 149-183.

 

[29thWisCoG]

These Calvary, according to pvt. Whipple, we're members of the Kansas 26th regiment of Cavalry, although KS didn't have a 26th regiment of cavalry. I'm going to assume he meant the 7th KS Cavalry, who's nickname was Jennison Jayhawkers.
Since the 7th had some experience earlier in the war fighting MO guerrillas, and they were not your typical cavalry regiment, (they were sent out of MO to fight east of the Miss. River due to their reputation for thievery amoungst other things), it just could be that they went into battle with two pistols, but that was not the norm.

Actually, this skirmish took place in Western TN. You asked for references to support what I posted, but do you have any references to support your assertions?

I tend to believe Whipple's account since he was an eyewitness.

 

[Booner]

Actually, this skirmish took place in Western TN. You asked for references to support what I posted, but do you have any references to support your assertions?

I tend to believe Whipple's account since he was an eyewitness.

I'll believe in Whipple's account too, other than I think he got the Ks cavalry unit wrong, along with the 10 inch Navy thing.
My assertion that union cavalry, as the norm, only had one pistol issued to them comes from army regulations.

 

[29thWisCoG]

I'll believe in Whipple's account too, other than I think he got the Ks cavalry unit wrong, along with the 10 inch Navy thing.
My assertion that union cavalry, as the norm, only had one pistol issued to them comes from army regulations.

I looked at the 10" Navy part of it, if you measure an 1860 SA Army from rear of cylinder to muzzle it's 10" !

One reason mentioned why there were no cylinders swappped is due to safety, the fully capped/loaded extra cylinder is allegedly like a a handgrenade waiting to happen... I don't see how it would be any more dangerous than fully loaded brass catridges, it too has cap/powder/bullet ready to happen and yet there is no issues with this...

 

[29thWisCoG]

You are right. I saw the "185" and closed the page. For $47 I might go for that.

I tried my plastic version today of the Polish Capper, it works much better for me than the TC straight line capper, its a keeper.

 

[Bill in Oregon]

Hmmm. Found this older thread after asking about the presence during the war of cappers for percussion revolvers over on the N-SSA bulletin board.

 

[thomas aagaard]

Still looking into sources on how officers reloaded their pistols during combat... perhaps you can show me your research here and that may help some.

If an officer is using his revolver in combat, he is not doing his job.

with gloves on, yes how did that even happen? Infantry had no gloves so this applies to cavalry and officers... I am still researching this but I think cavalry carried as many fully armed pistols as they could (2 or more?), and officers had fully loaded (with caps) spare cylinders to change out quickly

No they did not and no they did not.
Arms where issued. And regulations clearly said what arms a soldier should have and if a unit for some reason had more than needed they had to hand them in to the ordonnance department for reissue to unit that needed it.

Both sides had a serious lack of revolvers. The CSA tried to help solve it by forcefully buying any revolvers in the hands of enlisted men in the infantry. Any weapons captured from the enemy or picked up after a battle also had to be handed in to the ordonnance department. (bring you own unit up to numbers Iam sure was done first)

So When we are talking regular cavalry the troopers did not have more than one revolver.
And it would be hard for a unit ordonnance sergeant to keep extra guns a secret, since if the weapons are not listed on paper you can't get cartridge for them. And if a unit managed to get extras, surely the word would spread and what ever unit that did not have sufficient numbers would make a issue out of it.

Officers who had to provide their own arms and uniforms might have purchased more than one.
And similar in irregular units men ight have more than one if they where able to capture them from the enemy.
Cylinders.
There is simply no evidence of this being done. The arms manufactures where not able to produce the needed number of revolvers... so they where not making extra cylinders during the war.
Prewar when you purchased a revolver is was not something that was part of the standard packages, unlike a case, bullet molds, tools and similar. There where no orders for extra cylinders. There is no evidence of extra cylinders being issued.

And imaging trying to replace on on a moving horse during combat...

Sure some random solder might have gotten access to one from a broken revolver or similar but again no evidence of this.
11th OVC publishe dthis video on the very topic a few days ago.

 

[Dan Kohli]

So they used cappers for the pistols?

I have a Pietta 1860 Colt SAA 44 and capping the nipple by hand is not so easy, I have cappers and it does make it much easier.

The rank and file were not issued cappers by the U.S. Army . The main capper used by soldiers are called fingers.

 

[Bill in Oregon]

I don't believe anyone has suggested the War Department issued a capper of any sort. My question was whether cappers for revolvers ever show up in Civil War artifact inventories and what form they took. Colt offered a round capper with their early Patersons, and Ned Roberts mentions them for revolver use in his "The Muzzle-Loading Caplock Rifle," pages 61-65. I would think a fellow issued a revolver might recognize a capper as a handy piece of non-regulation kit, just as most any soldier would a Barlow knife. IIRC, paper cartridge revolver ammunition was issued in wooden blocks holding cartridges and with a couple of extra caps in case of loss of the tiny critters -- to me, acknowledgement that loss of caps was an issue.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015060544213&seq=81

 

[Dan Kohli]

If an officer is using his revolver in combat, he is not doing his job.

No they did not and no they did not.
Arms where issued. And regulations clearly said what arms a soldier should have and if a unit for some reason had more than needed they had to hand them in to the ordonnance department for reissue to unit that needed it.

Both sides had a serious lack of revolvers. The CSA tried to help solve it by forcefully buying any revolvers in the hands of enlisted men in the infantry. Any weapons captured from the enemy or picked up after a battle also had to be handed in to the ordonnance department. (bring you own unit up to numbers Iam sure was done first)

So When we are talking regular cavalry the troopers did not have more than one revolver.
And it would be hard for a unit ordonnance sergeant to keep extra guns a secret, since if the weapons are not listed on paper you can't get cartridge for them. And if a unit managed to get extras, surely the word would spread and what ever unit that did not have sufficient numbers would make a issue out of it.

Officers who had to provide their own arms and uniforms might have purchased more than one.
And similar in irregular units men ight have more than one if they where able to capture them from the enemy.
Cylinders.
There is simply no evidence of this being done. The arms manufactures where not able to produce the needed number of revolvers... so they where not making extra cylinders during the war.
Prewar when you purchased a revolver is was not something that was part of the standard packages, unlike a case, bullet molds, tools and similar. There where no orders for extra cylinders. There is no evidence of extra cylinders being issued.

And imaging trying to replace on on a moving horse during combat...

Sure some random solder might have gotten access to one from a broken revolver or similar but again no evidence of this.
11th OVC publishe dthis video on the very topic a few days ago.

The second part is out.

 

[RedRover]

The second part is out.

Indeed. That was great. In Forrest's own book (penned by Thomas Jordan) it mentions in 1865 Forrest and his staff officers carried a pair of revolvers each. But the men of his escort were armed with a Spencer and a pistol.

From early 1862...

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

Soldiers were issued cap boxes for carrying percussion caps.
View attachment 410286

Were they really secure enough to avoid spillage?

 

[UCVRelics]

Were they really secure enough to avoid spillage?

Yes they were as they had an inner flap as well as the outer flap.

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

Yes they were as they had an inner flap as well as the outer flap.
View attachment 540449

Thanks, @UCVRelics.