Discussion Camel Corps

[Phogan87]

I have been reading about the US Camel Corps with a great deal of interest. It's a fascinating story of what could have been. My question is this: are those "camel bells" that are all over the internet and attributed to the corps legit? If so it would be a fascinating relic to have in a collection about an interesting footnote in US military history.

 

[RedRover]

looks like a real bell... and there was actually a camel experiment in the west. Credulity about the connection of the two might vary.

 

[James Brenner]

Could be. I suspect that when the U.S. bought the camels, they also purchased saddles and all the trappings, too.

 

[Phogan87]

Thanks redrover, I appreciate you weighing in. It was actually that connection that I was interested in. Are these, in fact, bells from the US camel corps?

 

[RedRover]

Thanks redrover, I appreciate you weighing in. It was actually that connection that I was interested in. Are these, in fact, bells from the US camel corps?

That is indeed a legitimate question!

"Are these, in fact, bells from the US camel corps?"

It certainly cuts through any possible confusion over the meaning of descriptive terms like "rare," "original," "authentic" etc., and narrows it down to simply yes or no.

The yes/no answers may be simple, but behind them a difficulty comes down to how we might determine it.

It's a historical question. And to answer it, it is presumed some historical or archaeological evidence would be at hand as a guide.


The people selling them say they are army camel corps bells.

As collectors/dealers (rather than historians or archaeologists) they are likely to rely upon the publications of other collectors/dealers (or other internet sales). Even back in the 70s there were publications noting claims of a "US Cavalry bell" for camels. The "Book of the American Bell Association" of 1970, for example, noted a gentleman claiming to have a US Army camel corps harness bell..

The evident presumption being, since this or similar publications, that the casting of a similar patriotic motif on a small bell is an evidence of association with the camel corps. However, this early publication lacks discussion of historical provenance of their camel corps bells; viz. where they came from, and why the gentleman associated it with the camel corps.

By the publication of L.E. Springer's 1972 "Collector's Book of Bells" it is noted that replicas of these "camel corps bell" were by that time around, and presumed that their maker, Mrs. Forbes, had seen some historical provenance for the two bells upon which she based her replicas.

Mrs. Forbes cast "historic" bells from about 1906 to 1941. She was at one time director of the historical society of Southern California, and owned a foundry, "The California Bell Company," and was the only lady bell-maker in the United States. The company is still in business.

If one could find a copy of Mrs. Forbes' "brief history" of the two original Army camel bells she "found" (in whatever manner) it might explain more on the subject.


I would like to note that I am not a collector of bells, and have no particular interest or knowledge on the subject of them, historic or otherwise. Nor particularly knowledgeable about the Army's camel corps, though I have seen the movie "Hawmps" (1976).

And indeed, we might find by a simple search that there are vendors selling artifacts presumed to be from that production...

Hawmps: gold key prop...



The Army Quartermaster Museum at Fort Lee museum had a military used "camel bell," not one hung on their harness, but employed at the Benecia Arsenal in California to summon the camels when kept there before they were sold at auction.

 

[Sowbelly and Hardtack]

While such bells have been on the collectors market for years, I've yet to see any research on them.

 

[Sowbelly and Hardtack]

The United States Army Camel Corps 1856-66

 

[Pollaco]

Have you ever heard of Douglas the camel? For an intetesting read , google it.

 

[Sowbelly and Hardtack]

The U.S. Army's "Camel Corps" Experiment - The Army Historical Foundation

By Vince Hawkins In the 1830s America’s westward expansion was being severely curtailed by the inhospitable terrain and climate faced by pioneers and settlers. This was particularly the case in […]

armyhistory.org

THE U.S. ARMY'S "CAMEL CORPS" EXPERIMENT

"In June 1859, while attempting to climb a sloping bare rock in southwest Texas, one of the Army's camels lost its footing and fell, smashing one of the precious water barrels it was carrying. An officer accompanying the expedition quickly cut the lines ensnaring the camel, preventing a bad situation from becoming worse. (Camels in Texas, by Thomas Lovell, courtesy of the Abell-Hanger Foundation and the Permian Basin Petroleum Museum, Library and Hall of Fame of Midland, Texas, where the painting is on permanent display.)"

 

[Pollaco]

There was a port south of Galveston on the Texas coast named Indianola. It was wiped off the map by a hurricane (2 hurricanes actually) after the Civil War. One of its claims to fame is that is were the camels landed when they were imported. From there they trekked to San Antonio then West. You are right , it is interesting.

 

[TucsonReb]

Sightings of wild camels here in Arizona were reported well into the 20th century, with their origins being the Camel Corps.

 

[RollAlabamaRoll]

I think a confederate regiment at Vicksburg had a camel with them for some odd reason and is buried there.

 

[Pollaco]

I think a confederate regiment at Vicksburg had a camel with them for some odd reason and is buried there.

That was Douglas, mascot of the 43rd Mississippi, I think. I've often wondered how the name "Douglas" originated. Stephen Douglas, maybe? There was sort of a resemblance.After he was shot (by a yankee) and eaten. The Southern Soldiers carved rings and other souvenirs from the bones. A lot of those souvenirs were probably actually from cow bones though.

 

[Phogan87]

That is indeed a legitimate question!

"Are these, in fact, bells from the US camel corps?"

It certainly cuts through any possible confusion over the meaning of descriptive terms like "rare," "original," "authentic" etc., and narrows it down to simply yes or no.

The yes/no answers may be simple, but behind them a difficulty comes down to how we might determine it.

It's a historical question. And to answer it, it is presumed some historical or archaeological evidence would be at hand as a guide.


The people selling them say they are army camel corps bells.

As collectors/dealers (rather than historians or archaeologists) they are likely to rely upon the publications of other collectors/dealers (or other internet sales). Even back in the 70s there were publications noting claims of a "US Cavalry bell" for camels. The "Book of the American Bell Association" of 1970, for example, noted a gentleman claiming to have a US Army camel corps harness bell..

View attachment 500424

The evident presumption being, since this or similar publications, that the casting of a similar patriotic motif on a small bell is an evidence of association with the camel corps. However, this early publication lacks discussion of historical provenance of their camel corps bells; viz. where they came from, and why the gentleman associated it with the camel corps.

By the publication of L.E. Springer's 1972 "Collector's Book of Bells" it is noted that replicas of these "camel corps bell" were by that time around, and presumed that their maker, Mrs. Forbes, had seen some historical provenance for the two bells upon which she based her replicas.

View attachment 500428
View attachment 500430

Mrs. Forbes cast "historic" bells from about 1906 to 1941. She was at one time director of the historical society of Southern California, and owned a foundry, "The California Bell Company," and was the only lady bell-maker in the United States. The company is still in business.

If one could find a copy of Mrs. Forbes' "brief history" of the two original Army camel bells she "found" (in whatever manner) it might explain more on the subject.


I would like to note that I am not a collector of bells, and have no particular interest or knowledge on the subject of them, historic or otherwise. Nor particularly knowledgeable about the Army's camel corps, though I have seen the movie "Hawmps" (1976).

View attachment 500431

And indeed, we might find by a simple search that there are vendors selling artifacts presumed to be from that production...

Hawmps: gold key prop...



The Army Quartermaster Museum at Fort Lee museum had a military used "camel bell," not one hung on their harness, but employed at the Benecia Arsenal in California to summon the camels when kept there before they were sold at auction.

View attachment 500429

Thanks so much for the information. So if I'm understanding this correctly, there are a whole lot of reproductions, while there may be only a handful of originals. I wish it was common practice to always include the word "copy" on reproductions. Leaving a simple word off muddies the water so much later on in history.

 

[Phogan87]

PS: I have to check out "hawumps"!

 

[Pollaco]

Thanks so much for the information. So if I'm understanding this correctly, there are a whole lot of reproductions, while there may be only a handful of originals. I wish it was common practice to always include the word "copy" on reproductions. Leaving a simple word off muddies the water so much later on in history.

The Hobby Protection Act that was passed by Congress back in 1973 stated that the word "Copy" or "Facsimile" had to appear on reproductions of certain items. But it was mainly for political and numismatic items like posters or old money.I don't think it covers hardware like camel bells.