California or Bust

DaveBrt

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Location
Charlotte, NC
I just read a newspaper article from a San Antonio, Tex. paper from early April, 1861. The article was commenting on how many families were rushing to get to California before the "troubles" became serious. It mentions that there were 20 wagons leaving that day to join others and that there had been departures almost every day for weeks.

Has anyone seen an estimate of how many folks migrated to the far west just before and during the war? If so, is there any indication which states or regions they are leaving from.
 
I just read a newspaper article from a San Antonio, Tex. paper from early April, 1861. The article was commenting on how many families were rushing to get to California before the "troubles" became serious. It mentions that there were 20 wagons leaving that day to join others and that there had been departures almost every day for weeks.

Has anyone seen an estimate of how many folks migrated to the far west just before and during the war? If so, is there any indication which states or regions they are leaving from.
Nope. I forgot about leaving from Texas before being conscripted.

The stories I remember almost always left from St. Joseph, MO. It was likely the movies.

Meanwhile, how in heck did Texas people figure to get across two major deserts and a significant mountain range? (This is not an invitation to bust the chops of Texans, Blessmag.)
 
Having driven across Texas once, in the summer, with no A/C, no relief driver and a 100lb dog that got carsick, I can't hardly image that trip.

But then:

west-usa.jpg
 
A Wikipedia article on the California Trail lists the number of immigrants coming into California along that (northern) trail. It shows about 7,500 for 1858; 20,000 for 1859; 12,000 for 1860; and estimates 5,000 for 1861, saying that the Civil War caused much disruption along the trail.

The southern route evidently went from Texas to Santa Fe (same route the Confederates took on their way to Valverde and Glorieta Pass) and then followed the Southern Immigrant Trail to San Diego or Los Angeles. Haven't seen any estimates for numbers of travelers.

The articles I've read on California history mention that these immigrants tended to be either Midwest farmers (probably taking the California Trail) or Southern farmers (probably using either trail).
 
Love the map, Andy. Dang! There were all kinds of places from which people headed West. Note that South Dakota is not there.

Brother lives in Boise, and there are a few places where you can still see the wagon ruts of the Oregon Trail.

I have no idea why anyone would want to go to Oregon, but they did. (I had a few relatives who went to Montana and North Dakota.)

At the time of the migrations, the US Regular Army was protecting those trails -- not always successfully.
 
Love the map, Andy. Dang! There were all kinds of places from which people headed West. Note that South Dakota is not there.

Over in the mail-by-train thread, I mention that there was an overland mail route going through San Antonio all the way to San Fransisco -- I presume that's the one shown, and the route the settlers took.
 
That's true. Great-grandma died on the route - cholera had followed from back east along the Oregon-California Trail. They started at Independence, Missouri. They took the California Trail and that's how they came to be in Grass Valley selling draft horses to miners! (Nobody ever thinks of Indians being in those wagon trains, but there were lots of them.)
 
00003v.jpg

Aue Stagecoach Inn, Leon Springs, Bexar County, Texas. LoC image.

I pulled out Stagecoach West! by Ralph Moody, that discusses some of the southern routes. In Chapter 7 he gives as an example an advert for a line running from San Antonio, Texas to San Diego, California, in 1857 by this route:
San Antonio
Fort Clark
Fort Hudson
Fort Lancaster
Fort Lawson
Fort Davis
Fort Bliss/El Paso
Fort Fillmore/La Mesilla
Tucson
Maricopa Wells
Fort Yuma
San Diego

On all except the last leg of the route, between Fort Yuma and San Diego, passengers were guaranteed to ride in coaches. The Fort Yuma/SanDiego leg, 180 miles, was to be done on muleback. Stages departed from each end twice per month, on the 9th and 24th, at 6 a.m. So it would seem that by 1861 that route, at least was well established. The posts listed are far apart, so presumably there were a large number of way stations established in between.

Moody also gives this map:

SouthernStagecoachRoute.jpg


Folks who've driven I-10 west of El Paso will appreciate that 19th century observation given below the map.
 
That's true. Great-grandma died on the route - cholera had followed from back east along the Oregon-California Trail. They started at Independence, Missouri. They took the California Trail and that's how they came to be in Grass Valley selling draft horses to miners! (Nobody ever thinks of Indians being in those wagon trains, but there were lots of them.)

My gg-grandmother's first husband died on the Oregon Trail in the late 1860's-early '70's. Story is that he had TB and got so weak he couldn't drive the wagon. The rest of the party was afraid he would get others sick so their wagon was cut out from the party. He ended up dying, so she buried him along the trail and drove herself and 5 yr old son in the ox-drawn wagon back east to civilization. Must have been a tough lady.
 
My g. grandfather and his two brothers sold everything they had and bought a few old Conastogas and in 1889, very late in the history of the Oregon Trail, the three families transversed the Oregon Trail from Lincoln City, Nebraska to Coos Bay Oregon. My grandfather, Carl was 8 at the time. Growing up I spent many summer nights listening to grandfather and his brother Archie and his sister Ada tell the story of what they called, "the long walk".
It was as I said late in the history of the Trail, but they all remembered the junk strewn along the way and the scavengers that worked the left overs. Seems that a lot of people over the years took to the trail with wagons loaded with all kinds of stuff, once on the trail the stoves, pianos, furniture and trunks would be chucked over the side..there was a industry that fed off recycling all that debrie.
The other memories they shared with us was the graves, small markers here, a few graves marked there, the lack of water, the long hot dusty days followed by bone chilling cold nights. I was ten when my grandfather died, I still remember watching the old TV show " Wagon Train" with him and him laughing, he would always remind me that there were very few horses used to pull those wagons, the hay required would have demanded that the only thing in the wagon would be hay and oats and water for the horses!
I always felt blessed to have known these people. These were my fathers parents and aunts and uncles, and my dad always reminded me that these were the last of the pioneers and to listen to their stories.
The story of our families relationship to The Trail goes back in my fathers mothers side to. My paternal grandmothers maiden name was Jackson. Her grandfather was Capt. J.J. Jackson, that name always stumped me. He was born in Sulfolk County Mass. In 1815. He shows up in Empire City Oregon in 1855, and marrying a widow named Nobel, she and her husband had built the first hotel in Coos County.
I searched all over for this Capt. Jackson, was he in the Navy? Army? The answer was a shocker. I kept finding ship passenger list with J. J. Jackson sailing from San Franscico to New Orleans, but then he disappeared until a year or two later when he would again, sail from San Fran. To New Orleans...then I discovered that men who assembled wagon trains and hired the drivers and guides, advertise and charter families to travel west on the many trails west were called....Captains.. Then it all fell into place.
Sorry to amble on about the Trail but it is a subject near and dear to me. Today my wife and I live near the Trail, everytime I drive across the northern edge of the Great Basin, between Boise Id. And Salt Lake City, or west to Portland Ore. I see the wagon ruts that still scar the basalt and sand, I have driven the trail from end to end, stopped at many of the land marks. I see a little 8 year old boy, walking along side a wagon pulled by oxen, and few head of cows trailing behind, walking 10 miles a day, some time 12, or on a good day, 15. Rocks cutting boot leather, little to eat or drink, seeing the grave markers, at least one a mile, sleeping under the Milkey Way brighter then we can now imagine, no city lights to diminish the darkness of the night,,wolves howling, the terror of the many river crossings.
It took them 8 months, today we can drive this 2,200 mile in two days and take our time doing it.
They just don't make people like that anymore. We could use a few today just to put things into perspective.
 
My g. grandfather and his two brothers sold everything they had and bought a few old Conastogas and in 1889, very late in the history of the Oregon Trail, the three families transversed the Oregon Trail from Lincoln City, Nebraska to Coos Bay Oregon. My grandfather, Carl was 8 at the time. Growing up I spent many summer nights listening to grandfather and his brother Archie and his sister Ada tell the story of what they called, "the long walk".
It was as I said late in the history of the Trail, but they all remembered the junk strewn along the way and the scavengers that worked the left overs. Seems that a lot of people over the years took to the trail with wagons loaded with all kinds of stuff, once on the trail the stoves, pianos, furniture and trunks would be chucked over the side..there was a industry that fed off recycling all that debrie.
The other memories they shared with us was the graves, small markers here, a few graves marked there, the lack of water, the long hot dusty days followed by bone chilling cold nights. I was ten when my grandfather died, I still remember watching the old TV show " Wagon Train" with him and him laughing, he would always remind me that there were very few horses used to pull those wagons, the hay required would have demanded that the only thing in the wagon would be hay and oats and water for the horses!
I always felt blessed to have known these people. These were my fathers parents and aunts and uncles, and my dad always reminded me that these were the last of the pioneers and to listen to their stories.
The story of our families relationship to The Trail goes back in my fathers mothers side to. My paternal grandmothers maiden name was Jackson. Her grandfather was Capt. J.J. Jackson, that name always stumped me. He was born in Sulfolk County Mass. In 1815. He shows up in Empire City Oregon in 1855, and marrying a widow named Nobel, she and her husband had built the first hotel in Coos County.
I searched all over for this Capt. Jackson, was he in the Navy? Army? The answer was a shocker. I kept finding ship passenger list with J. J. Jackson sailing from San Franscico to New Orleans, but then he disappeared until a year or two later when he would again, sail from San Fran. To New Orleans...then I discovered that men who assembled wagon trains and hired the drivers and guides, advertise and charter families to travel west on the many trails west were called....Captains.. Then it all fell into place.
Sorry to amble on about the Trail but it is a subject near and dear to me. Today my wife and I live near the Trail, everytime I drive across the northern edge of the Great Basin, between Boise Id. And Salt Lake City, or west to Portland Ore. I see the wagon ruts that still scar the basalt and sand, I have driven the trail from end to end, stopped at many of the land marks. I see a little 8 year old boy, walking along side a wagon pulled by oxen, and few head of cows trailing behind, walking 10 miles a day, some time 12, or on a good day, 15. Rocks cutting boot leather, little to eat or drink, seeing the grave markers, at least one a mile, sleeping under the Milkey Way brighter then we can now imagine, no city lights to diminish the darkness of the night,,wolves howling, the terror of the many river crossings.
It took them 8 months, today we can drive this 2,200 mile in two days and take our time doing it.
They just don't make people like that anymore. We could use a few today just to put things into perspective.

And the land they came over! Over to Sheep Rock, which is just a gigantic boulder sticking up on the edge of the Shasta Valley, there are very deep grooves in the solid rock from the ropes of the pioneers hauling the whole wagon up and over. All around is flat land. So the legend was they did that because of Indians. Nope. The Indians would have got them in that laborious haul up the rock. It's high! What made them do it? The land was marsh. The whole valley was marshland and full of beaver and bison and all. They'd gone the length of the valley and couldn't find solid enough ground to take the wagons. How to get to the promised land? Haul yourself up over the only solid thing in the valley! :smug:
 
Local expert here.....there was considerable traffic, including the Butterfield Stage line. Remember that his route had been opened up for the California Gold Rush. If nothing else in Texas was protected, the stage lines...sorta...were. We had that string of forts Andy mentioned. The stops were generally springs or water holes....which unfortunately were REALLY popular with the Comanches and Apaches. Of course, that led to excellent tales of the stage being pursued down Lancaster Hill....and all that jazz.

FtLancasterTxOldGovernmentRoad1207BG.jpg

The fort is just out of sight at the bottom of the hill.

FortStockton,1884.jpg


And the truly LOVELY Ft. Stockton in 1884. (It really is pretty now. Huge cottonwoods....) That house is still there and is a museum, as is the fort.

ComancheSprings.jpg


Comanche Springs at Ft. Stockton.

Expired Image Removed
 
Local expert here.....there was considerable traffic, including the Butterfield Stage line. Remember that his route had been opened up for the California Gold Rush. If nothing else in Texas was protected, the stage lines...sorta...were. We had that string of forts Andy mentioned. The stops were generally springs or water holes....which unfortunately were REALLY popular with the Comanches and Apaches. Of course, that led to excellent tales of the stage being pursued down Lancaster Hill....and all that jazz.

FtLancasterTxOldGovernmentRoad1207BG.jpg

The fort is just out of sight at the bottom of the hill.

FortStockton,1884.jpg


And the truly LOVELY Ft. Stockton in 1884. (It really is pretty now. Huge cottonwoods....) That house is still there and is a museum, as is the fort.

ComancheSprings.jpg


Comanche Springs at Ft. Stockton.

Expired Image Removed

I do love Western history! That probably sounds strange from an Indian. :D
 
At least in our part of Texas, they kicked boot-tay frequently.

We tried more than we get credit for out here but...wow, what a juggernaut! I really do wonder sometimes if the rest of the country realizes what actually happened to Native people in California, and how fast it was. At least the Apaches, Kiowas, Comanches and all had some practice on the Spaniards and Mexicans!
 
We tried more than we get credit for out here but...wow, what a juggernaut! I really do wonder sometimes if the rest of the country realizes what actually happened to Native people in California, and how fast it was. At least the Apaches, Kiowas, Comanches and all had some practice on the Spaniards and Mexicans!

To answer your question, probably most people don't have a clue about California....nor the Jumanos and other Native Americans here in Texas. The Comanches, Apaches and Kiowas had the right idea.
 
To answer your question, probably most people don't have a clue about California....nor the Jumanos and other Native Americans here in Texas. The Comanches, Apaches and Kiowas had the right idea.

There were a number of major azz-kicking uprisings among the Mission Indians, too. I've always resented the term Mission Indian, considering the large number of tribes and bands involved. It's a loss of identity, you know. But, then, that's what that system was all about. I don't mind the padres spreading the word, but it seems to me if they read it more thoroughly they would see that the way they were spreading it wasn't the way Jesus recommended!
 
There were a number of major azz-kicking uprisings among the Mission Indians, too. I've always resented the term Mission Indian, considering the large number of tribes and bands involved. It's a loss of identity, you know. But, then, that's what that system was all about. I don't mind the padres spreading the word, but it seems to me if they read it more thoroughly they would see that the way they were spreading it wasn't the way Jesus recommended!

How many people know about New Mexico and the Pueblo uprisings? LOL. Hiking back to El Paso del Norte must have really been fun for those Spaniards.....

And that book I've been reading. So much for happy Indians and Pilgrims. :)
 
And the land they came over! Over to Sheep Rock, which is just a gigantic boulder sticking up on the edge of the Shasta Valley, there are very deep grooves in the solid rock from the ropes of the pioneers hauling the whole wagon up and over. All around is flat land. So the legend was they did that because of Indians. Nope. The Indians would have got them in that laborious haul up the rock. It's high! What made them do it? The land was marsh. The whole valley was marshland and full of beaver and bison and all. They'd gone the length of the valley and couldn't find solid enough ground to take the wagons. How to get to the promised land? Haul yourself up over the only solid thing in the valley! :smug:

What's funny is we always think of the Great Plains, or the Great Basin or even the Continental Divide as being the great hardship.
But the crossing of the Snake River was as dangerous as any other part of the trek. As you drive along I-84 in the comfort of your automobile, the trail across Idaho travels along the Snake until the great river turns north a few miles west of Ontario Ore. There is a wonderful state park named Farewell Bend State Park, the site was first used by Wilson Price Hunt in 1811, later by Bonneville, Wyeth and Fremont.
After leaving the Snake the immigrants faced the daunting task of climbing the Blue Mountains, then cross the high plains of the Umatilla plateau. For those who where headed to the southern coast of Oregon, there was another four hundred miles, four rivers and three mountain ranges to cross.
 

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