Breech Loading Parrott?

[USS ALASKA]

Sirs, was reading that in 1878, some Civil War era Parrotts were "modernized for breech-loading operation..." This kinda caught me by surprise given the reputation of the Parrotts and the call for their removal from service as early as 1862. Was this a case of "...this is what we have so this is what we'll use..." or was this just an experiment and if it didn't work, who cared, it was just a Parrott that was wasted?

Thanks for the help,
USS ALASKA

 

[redbob]

I am surprised to hear about this, I know that 3" Ordnance Guns were converted but with the Parrott's breech weakness (real or supposed); I can't see this happening.

 

[UCVRelics]

The latter days of the the CW the West Point foundry went to the Rodman, Water Core, hollow-cast process on the the 100lb Parrott's which reduced the problem they were having. There are many examples of the US Navy converting Parrott's to breach loading guns.

Cannons at Trophy Park

Converted breach loading Parrott's on the USS Michigan.

 

[USS ALASKA]

Sirs, where I saw this reference was in 'The American Steel Navy' by Cdr. John T. Alden USN (Ret.), page 8, on the USS Pensacola. Reference states that at that time - 1888 - the P'cola still carried 4 Parrotts, two 60 pounders and two 80 pounders. The breech-loading modified Parrott in the pic was her forward pivot gun. So could have been either size?

Cheers and thanks again for the help,
USS ALASKA

 

[redbob]

I wonder how well they worked?

 

[USS ALASKA]

I am surprised to hear about this, I know that 3" Ordnance Guns were converted but with the Parrott's breech weakness (real or supposed); I can't see this happening.

Indeed sir - that's what caught my eye. "Modify a Parrott? What?!?"

Cheers,
USS ALASKA

 

[DaveBrt]

Sirs, where I saw this reference was in 'The American Steel Navy' by Cdr. John T. Alden USN (Ret.), page 8, on the USS Pensacola. Reference states that at that time - 1888 - the P'cola still carried 4 Parrotts, two 60 pounders and two 80 pounders. The breech-loading modified Parrott in the pic was her forward pivot gun. So could have been either size?

Cheers and thanks again for the help,
USS ALASKA

Excellent book.

 

[DixieRifles]

I thought the Parrot cannon was refined for metallic shells and continued to be used up until WW1. But I may be thinking about the Whitworth.

I do have a related question. A local museum has two artillery shells that he thinks were fired by the Parrot Rifle. One is the typical one you see in reference books. The other is completely different. The mid-section has a small diameter---shaped much like a modern sabot shell fired by high-velocity anti-tank cannon.
What cannon fired a shell shaped like that? Parrot?

 

[Belfoured]

Sirs, was reading that in 1878, some Civil War era Parrotts were "modernized for breech-loading operation..." This kinda caught me by surprise given the reputation of the Parrotts and the call for their removal from service as early as 1862. Was this a case of "...this is what we have so this is what we'll use..." or was this just an experiment and if it didn't work, who cared, it was just a Parrott that was wasted?

Thanks for the help,
USS ALASKA

I think that the "reputation" of the Parrotts for failure was really based on the larger calibers. There isn't much showing that the 10 lbrs fit into that reputation or that they had a meaningful failure rate, and they seem actually to have been the favorite of quite a few gunners. Of course, I believe that the 3 in ordnance rifle had one documented failure during the entire war (at the Wilderness in May 1864), so the competition was tough.

 

[rebelatsea]

anyone know what breech loading system was employed?

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

When technology is moving forward at a breakneck pace, and you have massive budget cuts, you update what you have on hand.

I knew of 3-inch Ordnance Rifles being converted, but Parrotts getting the same treatment is news to me. Going by the photo it looks like they had a different system than with the 3-inchers, I want to see pictures of the breech now. It looks interesting.

 

[rebelatsea]

Same here, I don't recognise what little we can see of the breech end.

 

[Talos]

There are at least two surviving breechloading Parrott conversions at Trophy Park at the Norfolk Naval Yard, a 6.4"/100-pdr rifle and a 5.3"/60-pdr rifle.

 

[USS ALASKA]

I think that the "reputation" of the Parrotts for failure was really based on the larger calibers. There isn't much showing that the 10 lbrs fit into that reputation or that they had a meaningful failure rate, and they seem actually to have been the favorite of quite a few gunners. Of course, I believe that the 3 in ordnance rifle had one documented failure during the entire war (at the Wilderness in May 1864), so the competition was tough.

Sir, from what I have read, General Henry Hunt was calling for it's retirement in late 1862 and replacement with Model 1861 3" Ordnance Rifles.

Source - Hess 'Field Armies and Fortifications in the Civil War: The Eastern Campaigns, 1861-1864'

Cheers,
USS ALASKA

 

[USS ALASKA]

anyone know what breech loading system was employed?

I want to see pictures of the breech now. It looks interesting.

Same here, I don't recognise what little we can see of the breech end.

...and I'm having problems finding any up-close pics of that end of the item...my Google Fu is weak with this...

Cheers,
USS ALASKA

 

[rebelatsea]

...and I'm having problems finding any up-close pics of that end of the item...my Google Fu is weak with this...

Cheers,
USS ALASKA

Me too! It doesn't appear to Canet, and certainly isn't Krupp Wedge, It seems to be some form of screw.

 

[rebelatsea]

There are at least two surviving breechloading Parrott conversions at Trophy Park at the Norfolk Naval Yard, a 6.4"/100-pdr rifle and a 5.3"/60-pdr rifle.

Thank you. I wonder if any our wonderful members are near enough to go and get photos.

 

[Belfoured]

Sir, from what I have read, General Henry Hunt was calling for it's retirement in late 1862 and replacement with Model 1861 3" Ordnance Rifles.

Source - Hess 'Field Armies and Fortifications in the Civil War: The Eastern Campaigns, 1861-1864'

Cheers,
USS ALASKA

Hunt's specific issue actually was the 20 lb Parrott because of its weight and the ammunition required. The 20 lb was a "tweener" between a heavy field piece and a small siege piece. The prescribed team was 8 horses rather than 6. Hunt also didn't like rifles generally, partly because of their variety of available ammunition (Parrott, Hotchkiss, Schenkl, etc.). He also disliked the caliber, at one point after the War labeling the 3" caliber (which was shared by the 10 lb Parrott after 1862 and the ordnance rifle) the "feeblest" on the Planet. I'll stand by my point that a lot of battery commanders liked the 10 lb, which continued to be used after 1862 (as noted, Parrott changed the caliber from 2.9" to 3" in 1863, so it was fully compatible with the ordnance rifle). And I'll stand by the point that the Parrotts' reputation for failure was mostly based on incidents involving the larger calibers.

 

[Santee1821]

Converted breach loading Parrott's on the USS Michigan.
View attachment 322472

I know that this is an OLD thread... but these are also old cannons!

I've looked for a digital version of the above photo of breech loader Parrott rifles aboard USS Michigan on the internet, but I've not found it. Do you remember in what museum this photo was displayed?

These look similar to the 5.3-Inch Parrott breechloader conversions in Laconia, New Hampshire. I took the photos below in August 2024. More photos here. Photos of the Trophy Park Parrotts may be found here.

 

[USS ALASKA]

Given the addition of @Santee1821 's generously provided photos, can we now answer @rebelatsea 's below question?

anyone know what breech loading system was employed?

Cheers,
USS ALASKA