Biggest Confederate Error

[jgoodguy]

That's true, but Davis was originally chosen as an interim president. They could have run for the permanent presidency.

The election was in the following Nov after secession, however, there was no politicking because the Confederates felt that politicking let to the downfall of the US republic.

 

[jgoodguy]

That thought involves going down a lot of rabbit holes. We just can't know how the slave owning class would of reacted to a President Douglas. We know they wouldn't of had a problem with a President Breckenridge. Bell never addressed the issue of slavery during his presidential campaign. Most likely the slave owners could of lived with President Bell.
We do know the slave owners didn't think things through regarding the potential arming of slaves to be used against them.
Leftyhunter

Indeed, but to speculate about errors, one must speculate about alternatives. I think any of the Republican alternatives would have resulted in the National Anthem of 'Dixie'. Throughout history, the arming of slaves was an ad-hoc process without not a lot of thinking things through beforehand. Getting there requires Davis shooting first, alternatives to which are the focus of our rabbitholing.

 

[Robin Lesjovitch]

That's true, but Davis was originally chosen as an interim president. They could have run for the permanent presidency.

I think it extremely unlikely anyone would attempt to replace Davis during the war. In fact , nobody did. Nobody then had the advantage of reading ahead, as we do. American presidents do not get replaced during wars.

 

[jgoodguy]

I think it extremely unlikely anyone would attempt to replace Davis during the war. In fact , nobody did. Nobody then had the advantage of reading ahead, as we do. American presidents do not get replaced during wars.

After Nov 1861, Davis has a 6 year term. To replace him would require replacement.

 

[Robin Lesjovitch]

The election was in the following Nov after secession, however, there was no politicking because the Confederates felt that politicking let to the downfall of the US republic.

I'm not relly sure what this means.

 

[BlueandGrayl]

The conversation has now branched off from focusing on whether the Confederates should have sent cotton to Britain and France and get supplies and resources instead of self blockading themselves to focusing on what the Confederacy could/should have done.

 

[leftyhunter]

I think it extremely unlikely anyone would attempt to replace Davis during the war. In fact , nobody did. Nobody then had the advantage of reading ahead, as we do. American presidents do not get replaced during wars.

President Lyndon Baines Johnson and Harry Truman might disagree about being replaced.
Leftyhunter

 

[Robin Lesjovitch]

After Nov 1861, Davis has a 6 year term. To replace him would require replacement.

What I meant was that nobody was going to run against Davis. There was strong partisan politics in much of the South before the war, but that slowed down once the war began...national political Parties never got the chance to develop in the CSA, independence took precedence.

 

[jgoodguy]

I'm not relly sure what this means.

There were no political parties in the CSA because the leadership of the CSA felt that political parties cause the breakup of the US.

 

[Robin Lesjovitch]

President Lyndon Baines Johnson and Harry Truman might disagree about being replaced.
Leftyhunter

That's a fair point, but, of course, we have had no legal wars since 1945.

 

[BlueandGrayl]

What I meant was that nobody was going to run against Davis. There was strong partisan politics in much of the South before the war, but that slowed down once the war began...national political Parties never got the chance to develop in the CSA, independence took precedence.

Happened with the United States of the War of American Independence. In the case of Southern partisan politics there were at least two political parties in the 1830s-1850s that existed in the South: Democrats (founded by a Southerner Andrew Jackson) and Whigs (founded by a Kentucky-born Southerner Henry Clay alongside some Northerners). Democrats and Whigs were split in terms of classes, demographics, and policies the former was much more populist than it is today (Jacksonian type) and attracted support from the less-fortunate/lower classes as well as Irish and German Catholic immigrants while the latter was a nationalistic party that had support from middle/upper classes and a largely English/Scottish/Ulster Scots Protestant support base.

 

[Robin Lesjovitch]

There were no political parties in the CSA because the leadership of the CSA felt that political parties cause the breakup of the US.

I think we might disagree. It was obvious to all in 1861 that the political breakup of the country was not about Parties, but the lack of National Parties. The CSA had no overriding issues except independence, and no argument as to how that had to be accomplished. I think I am guilty of continuing off topic here, I will stop.

 

[Jimklag]

The conversation has now branched off from focusing on whether the Confederates should have sent cotton to Britain and France and get supplies and resources instead of self blockading themselves to focusing on what the Confederacy could/should have done.

Actually, others have been suggesting alternates to the proposal in the OP and someone suggested that Davis constituted the Biggest Confederate error and we are discussing alternatives.

 

[BlueandGrayl]

Actually, others have been suggesting alternates to the proposal in the OP and someone suggested that Davis constituted the Biggest Confederate error and we are discussing alternatives.

That was the point I was trying to make.

Also, I was just thinking of a thread discussing about Civil War/Confederate-Southern secession in the 1850s vs the 1860s, I've already finished reading America's Great Debate, On the Brink of Civil War, Prologue to Conflict, and most recently Texas, New Mexico, and the Compromise of 1850 and the 1849-1850 debate came pretty close to outright war such as Henry S. Foote trying to kill Thomas Hart Benton and Jefferson Davis almost dueling William Henry Bissell and most notably Governor Peter Hansborough Bell/Robert S. Neighbors' attempt to enforce control of New Mexico's easternmost provinces against the wishes of the U.S. government and Colonel John Munroe/Juge Joab Houghton.

Especially within America's Great Debate and Prologue to Conflict as well as a bit of On the Brink of Civil War and Texas, New Mexico, and the Compromise of 1850 I saw some newspapers such as the New York Herald, Richmond Republican, and Hartford Courant as well as contemporaries such as Henry S. Foote, Alexander Stephens, William H. Clingman, Robert Mercer Taliaferro Hunter, John M. Berrien, Henry Clay, and a Virginian who talked to Thomas J. Rusk who warned that there would be civil war/conflict if Texas ever fought the United States over New Mexico land and if no compromise was reached.

Once I get The Idea of a Southern Nation 1830-1860: Southern Nationalists and Southern Nationalism and read up on it I will probably do a thread explaining the differences between a 1850s Southern secession vs a 1860s Southern secession.

 

[leftyhunter]

That's a fair point, but, of course, we have had no legal wars since 1945.

Actually not quite true. Congress did vote for specific resolutions to conduct hostilities.
Leftyhunter

 

[cash]

That's a fair point, but, of course, we have had no legal wars since 1945.

We have had no declared wars since 1945. We have had legal wars since 1945, because we were acting under UN authorization or Congressional authorization.

 

[Robin Lesjovitch]

We have had no declared wars since 1945. We have had legal wars since 1945, because we were acting under UN authorization or Congressional authorization.

May I offer that we have had legal military actions since 1945.

 

[cash]

May I offer that we have had legal military actions since 1945.

The Korean Military Action?
The Vietnam Military Action?
The Persian Gulf Military Action?

 

[Jimklag]

The Korean Military Action?
The Vietnam Military Action?
The Persian Gulf Military Action?

 

[Robin Lesjovitch]

The Korean Military Action?
The Vietnam Military Action?
The Persian Gulf Military Action?

Yep. Check the official material . Korean Conflict, Vietnam Era,. We do have something called "the Gulf War", but an exact enemy is not defined, nor is there a defined period.