Bent Bayonet.

[bankerpapaw]

Question: I recently heard someone say that bayonets were nearly bent double to aid soldiers drag bodies to burial sites. They would jab the bayonets into the necks of the dead soldiers. Is this true?

 

[johan_steele]

No, it's a load of hooey.

 

[Billy Yank]

That seems to have been the case, 1st. Sgt. Bankerpapaw. In some instances they would drag them by the collar, but it wouldn't surprise me if they "jabbed" them in the flesh. I've also read that bent bayonets were used to hang cooking pots over a fire. I think there's one shown for sale on ebay at this moment. They are considered rare.

 

[Patrick H]

If used to drag corpses, I think it would be far more likely to drag the body by the uniform jacket than a body part. But the pot hook idea seems most reasonable to me. If that is correct, someone must have a camp photo showing a bayonet with a pot.

 

[Billy Yank]

Here's a reference from another forum:

 

[Patrick H]

Here's a reference from another forum:View attachment 38816

Okay, now I see what we're talking about. One question that comes to my mind is why anyone would bend a perfectly good bayonet for any other purpose. This must have happened in camps with a real oversupply of bayonets. Or maybe they were battlefield pick-ups from enemy soldiers.

 

[Billy Yank]

Okay, now I see what we're talking about. One question that comes to my mind is why anyone would bend a perfectly good bayonet for any other purpose. This must have happened in camps with a real oversupply of bayonets. Or maybe they were battlefield pick-ups from enemy soldiers.

I just have one observation. I do not think the tip is bent nearly enough as to form a suitable dragging or pot hook.

 

[caller]

I just have one observation. I do not think the tip is bent nearly enough as to form a suitable dragging or pot hook.

While looking for my first piece of Civil War artifacts the other day, a bent bayonet was being sold with a description that it was used by some artillery to clean certain parts of the cannon when needed, particularly the fuse, IIRC. (Artillery is not my area, so forgive me all for any errors.)

 

[M E Wolf]

I can easily see (in my mind given combat situations around a building or hardwood trees) that when thrusting to jab someone with a bayonet, miss the person and jam into something solid.

Another thought comes through my mind also -- that soldiers probably had more respect for their equals of the other enemy as not to use it commonly for dragging the deceased by the neck. One has to remember the time which these men fought, when civility and good conduct was always desired. I would think their mess-mates would also appeal to the inappropriate means of using bayonets to hook into the neck to drag a deceased. There will always be exceptions of course but, I am thinking of a larger general population to which prosecuted the war with professionalism and wishes that the deceased were treated with dignity, as they may become such later.

I could see a bayonet forced into the fuse hole and broken off as its known as 'spiking' the cannon as to disable it.

We'll have to cause CivilWarTalk/Mike K., who is in the Artillery, or one of the Re-enactors in Artillery to perhaps add to this conversation concerning cannon's maintenance. [NOTE: Made a new thread in Re-enactors Forum to visit this thread and add their expertise to the discussion]

As far as my thoughts of using a bayonets on bodies -- I believe the PBS "Death in the Civil War" mentioned bayonets were used to puncture bodies to release gas from bloated bodies.
But, it wouldn't justify the neat bend in the bayonet displayed.


M. E. Wolf

 

[Frederick14Va]

Question: I recently heard someone say that bayonets were nearly bent double to aid soldiers drag bodies to burial sites. They would jab the bayonets into the necks of the dead soldiers. Is this true?

I would have to say no... moving and/or dragging a dead body is no easy endeavor... if no stretcher available.... rolled over onto a tarp or blanket and then either carried or dragged on the blanket.... we do see period photos of burial details with bodies laying on blankets, which makes sense...... if its really nasty use of a sapling, shovel or pole to help roll it onto the blanket..... "hooking" into the flesh... would normally just tear through... and if its an older dead body... the absolute last thing you want to do is rupture it... trust me... Also have never found reference to a hook or bent bayonet used in such as fashion other than old tales and legend stories...

Guess Id better further explain how I know this.. I was a combat medic and civilian paramedic for many years... handled lots and lots of dead bodies over those years....

Artillery.. the worm is normally used to remove any debris from a gun tube.... Bayonet is far too big to use to spike a cannon vent.... a nail is normally used for this purpose... stick the nail down into the vent.. use the rammer to bend and cinch the nail on the inside... Normally only used if you have to abandon your gun on the field... spiked to prevent the enemy from immediately making use of it to fire on you in your retreat.... However only a temporary disablement... a good gunner can have it back in operation in a matter of minutes... hopefully your out of range or sight before they do...

 

[M E Wolf]

I would have to say no... moving and/or dragging a dead body is no easy endeavor... if no stretcher available.... rolled over onto a tarp or blanket and then either carried or dragged on the blanket.... we do see period photos of burial details with bodies laying on blankets, which makes sense...... if its really nasty use of a sapling, shovel or pole to help roll it onto the blanket..... "hooking" into the flesh... would normally just tear through... and if its an older dead body... the absolute last thing you want to do is rupture it... trust me... Also have never found reference to a hook or bent bayonet used in such as fashion other than old tales and legend stories...

Guess Id better further explain how I know this.. I was a combat medic and civilian paramedic for many years... handled lots and lots of dead bodies over those years....

Artillery.. the worm is normally used to remove any debris from a gun tube.... Bayonet is far too big to use to spike a cannon vent.... a nail is normally used for this purpose... stick the nail down into the vent.. use the rammer to bend and cinch the nail on the inside... Normally only used if you have to abandon your gun on the field... spiked to prevent the enemy from immediately making use of it to fire on you in your retreat.... However only a temporary disablement... a good gunner can have it back in operation in a matter of minutes... hopefully your out of range or sight before they do...

Frederick14VA--- Thank you for 'coming over' to take the time to add your valuable knowledge to the discussion. Its helpful to dismiss myths and those 'just something to throw out' without any weight of knowledge and or experience to back things up.

M. E. Wolf

 

[Albert Sailhorst]

While looking for my first piece of Civil War artifacts the other day, a bent bayonet was being sold with a description that it was used by some artillery to clean certain parts of the cannon when needed, particularly the fuse, IIRC. (Artillery is not my area, so forgive me all for any errors.)

Nope.....The tip of a bayonet is FAR too big to clean a touch hole.....at least on the 10 lb Parrott and 3 inch Ordnance guns that we use.....Could not be used to spike the gun, also.....

 

[caller]

Nope.....The tip of a bayonet is FAR too big to clean a touch hole.....at least on the 10 lb Parrott and 3 inch Ordnance guns that we use.....Could not be used to spike the gun, also.....

I found the source - it is a Civil War relic sale site - http://civilwarconnection.tripod.com/catalog.htm . Here is what they say:

M51. US Springfield Bayonet- marked "US", Soldier redesigned the tip, looks like he made a Cannon Vent Pick, Fine condition, extremely cool relic $90.00

 

[Albert Sailhorst]

A b

I found the source - it is a Civil War relic sale site - http://civilwarconnection.tripod.com/catalog.htm . Here is what they say:

M51. US Springfield Bayonet- marked "US", Soldier redesigned the tip, looks like he made a Cannon Vent Pick, Fine condition, extremely cool relic $90.00

I guarantee a bayonet will NOT fit down the vent......UNLESS it was filed to do so.....Filing it would require MORE work than spending the time to find an object that would fit down the vent....like a needle from a "Housewife"....The description says "looks like he made a Cannon Vent Pick"....The seller, who is either uneducated OR trying to fool someone, erroneously speculates that it is a vent pick....

 

[Albert Sailhorst]

Besides, that bayonet could have been bent 10 years after the war, for some type improvised of use on a farm.....

 

[BillO]

I'm still betting on potholder.

 

[Bob Owen]

Pot holder and fire pokers!

 

[Frederick14Va]

Here is an original artillery vent pick.... length of the thin rod depends on the caliber of cannon in question. Its purpose was to clean/clear the vent hole... also used after the weapon has been loaded... to puncture the powder bag hence the ignition flash from the friction primer can effectively reach the powder charge... It has to be thin enough to fit into the small vent... as well as long enough to go unto the breach to the powder bag... An example why the bent or filed down bayonet hypothesis doesn't hold much water or promise.....

 

[Corpbob]

Here's a reference from another forum:View attachment 38816

Looks useless as a pot holder. but it does looks like a fireplace tool. Those guys were winter quarters for months on end and had to make do whatever they could find. You'd need something to pull logs around in the fire, etc,

 

[M E Wolf]

Nope.....The tip of a bayonet is FAR too big to clean a touch hole.....at least on the 10 lb Parrott and 3 inch Ordnance guns that we use.....Could not be used to spike the gun, also.....

Thank you Albert Sailhorst, for adding your expertise` on Artillery to the discussion.

M. E. Wolf