What is this? Bayonet handle

[tokashikibob]

Hello CW Buffs,
Found this the other day with my Minelab, just what to make sure it is not some Civil War era piece of gear.
Best regards,
Bob

 

[3rd North Carolina]

I believe it's the handle to a zouave bayonet

 

[UCVRelics]

It is a model 1855 saber bayonet.

 

[Package4]

Hello CW Buffs,
Found this the other day with my Minelab, just what to make sure it is not some Civil War era piece of gear.
Best regards,
Bob

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As UCV has stated, this is the handle of an 1855 rifle bayonet, these were made for the M1855 Harper's Ferry rifle, very nice find!

 

[tokashikibob]

Thanks for all the info fellas you guys know your gear!

 

[Package4]

Hello CW Buffs,
Found this the other day with my Minelab, just what to make sure it is not some Civil War era piece of gear.
Best regards,
Bob

View attachment 334207

View attachment 334208

View attachment 334209

Is that the blade on the table?

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome back again

 

[byron ed]

I believe it's the handle to a zouave bayonet

...the modern (misleading) nickname that refers to the 1863 Remington contract rifle. And please, we've reached the point of discarding the shorthand "Zouave" for the 1863 Remington contract rifle.*


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* In fact the "Zouave" (not called that at the time) was merely the third iteration contract of the 1851 "Mississippi" two-band rifle pattern; the 1855 "Harpers Ferry" having been the second iteration. Yes Zouave units North and South had equipped with similar two-band pattern rifles (Southern versions included) but the 1863 didn't see much service, if any, during the war (there's some confusion about that since the type wasn't distinguished by contract iteration in the U.S. arsenal racks). Anyway not all iterations of this rifle pattern used the sabre bayonet of the kind you found; that was a contract specification.

The nickname "Zouave" was applied by repro makers back in the 1960s who based it on the use of similar 2-banders used by Zouaves on both sides during the war as seen in tintypes. Also, the actual surplused 1863s became popular for shooting competitions (good shooters) so the repro makers chose that type to reproduce to meet demand. "Zouave rifle" was a good selling name. We increasingly discard that shorthand anymore -- leave it to the gun dealers.

 

[Package4]

...the modern (misleading) nickname that refers to the 1863 Remington contract rifle. And please, we've reached the point of discarding the shorthand "Zouave" for the 1863 Remington contract rifle.*


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
* In fact the "Zouave" (not called that at the time) was merely the third iteration contract of the 1851 "Mississippi" two-band rifle pattern; the 1855 "Harpers Ferry" having been the second iteration. Yes Zouave units North and South had equipped with similar two-band pattern rifles (Southern versions included) but the 1863 didn't see much service, if any, during the war (there's some confusion about that since the type wasn't distinguished by contract iteration in the U.S. arsenal racks). Anyway not all iterations of this rifle pattern used the sabre bayonet of the kind you found; that was a contract specification.

The nickname "Zouave" was applied by repro makers back in the 1960s who based it on the use of similar 2-banders used by Zouaves on both sides during the war as seen in tintypes. Also, the actual surplused 1863s became popular for shooting competitions (good shooters) so the repro makers chose that type to reproduce to meet demand. "Zouave rifle" was a good selling name. We increasingly discard that shorthand anymore -- leave it to the gun dealers.

Case in fact, the first known reference to the 1863 Remington Rifle, being called the "Zouave" was by the firm Bannerman, who purchased almost the complete stock of 1863 rifles from the government at auction.

Bannerman purchased these pieces at the turn of the century and advertised them as (verbatim) : "100 Remington Muzzle Loading 58 Calibre Rifle with sword bayonets; new guns, tarnished from long storage and slightly speckled with rust. Length, 44 inches; weight of rifle about 9 pounds. Stamped with US, eagle, 1863 on the lock plate. The bayonet has fine steel blade, bronze handle, with leather scabbard, on which are brass mouth and tip pieces. The stocks are polished walnut with brass box on the butt for holding caps or wiping rag; brass guard butt plate and bands. The lot originally consisted of 10,000 guns purchased in the Fall of 1900 by sealed proposals where we outbid all competition by the small margin of 57-100 of a cent on each gun. All have been sold with the exception of this lot of 100, which we preferred to keep for our retail trade. Price for each gun with bayonet is $7.85each. This is the kind of gun usually carried by Zouave regiments."

From what I understand, the other 1,250 pieces were sold directly from the US government to countries in Europe soon after the American Civil War.

As Paul Harvey would say, "now we know the rest of the story"

 

[byron ed]

Case in fact, the first known reference to the 1863 Remington Rifle, being called the "Zouave" was by the firm Bannerman, who purchased almost the complete stock of 1863 rifles from the government at auction... at the turn of the century... [and] to countries in Europe soon after the American Civil War

...and none of them having provenance to a Zouave regiment, to stay on point. Still it is true, if someone just has to have something to hang their hat on; the 1863 Remington resembles "the kind of gun...carried by Zouave regiments." Many repros have their bayonet lug lopped off for that reason (mine for one), a common reenactorism through the 1990s (I suppose yet today?) ..."the rest of the story."