Assistance with uniform information

mcginj

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May 26, 2018
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Dayton
I am new to this forum, so please forgive me if I do not ask this with all the information needed. I have a photograph from my mother's family of a civil war soldier and I am trying to see if this soldier fits with my ancestors so I might be able to identify who it might be.

I took this photograph this weekend to the Dayton OH Veterns Center and Military museum. My mothers family were all from Gallia and Jackson Counties in Southern Ohio. I have found that of my Great Great Grandfathers, they belonged to the following companies: Company H - 27 OVI, Company K - 3rd OVI, 140th OVI

With the chevrons below the elbow the curator of the VA museum felt this was an early - probably 1861 militia uniform. If anyone has any information that can assist me to tie this photo to one of my ancestors with information on timeframe, rank, branch it would be appreciated
 

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Welcome From THE Heart Of Dixie. I'm sure some of our subject matter experts can help. Paging @major bill
 
I am not sure what kind of uniforms the 1861 Ohio militia wore.

At first glance at the image, I have to ask why 1861 militia uniform? Why not mid 1870s militia uniform?
For some reason I get a post Civil War feeling about this image. The cap almost looks post war. The pre Civil War militia companies often wore frock coats based on the U.S. Army frock coats. The Prussian collars of the U.S. Army frock coats often served as a model for the collars of militia frock coats. Here the collar is shorter than the standard Prussian collar. The height of the collar is not locked in stone and not too much confidence should be put in the fact his collar is a bit short.

This could be an early Civil War militia uniform or an early Civil War issue uniform.
 
Welcome to the forum @mcginj.

Let's start at the beginning. What type of photograph is it? Ambrotype (glass plate) image or a tintype (metal plate image)? What size is the image?

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Welcome to the forum from Columbus Ohio. I have not done any research on Ohio militia uniforms but here is a pretty good thread that says early Ohio uniforms were grey with black trim:

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/ohio-state-militia.82400/

It appears that he has on the state of Ohio sword belt plate in the style used from 1861-1865 with the boat centralized and the surrounding wreath, if that helps any. Militia units often wore outdated uniforms and accoutrements though so that may not help dating this image. It also looks like he is holding a light artillery saber but it doesn't have the curve in the blade. Can anybody confirm what that sword is? NCO OR musicians sword maybe?
 
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Welcome to the forum from Columbus Ohio. I have not done any research on Ohio militia uniforms but here is a pretty good thread that says early Ohio uniforms were grey with black trim:

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/ohio-state-militia.82400/

It appears that he has on the state of Ohio sword belt plate in the style used from 1861-1865 with the boat centralized and the surrounding wreath, if that helps any. Militia units often wore outdated uniforms and accoutrements though so that may not help dating this image. It also looks like he is holding a light artillery saber but it doesn't have the curve in the blade. Can anybody confirm what that sword is? NCO OR musicians sword maybe?


Welcome to the forum @mcginj.

Let's start at the beginning. What type of photograph is it? Ambrotype (glass plate) image or a tintype (metal plate image)? What size is the image?

View attachment 189816 View attachment 189817
I believe it is tintype. It is in a leather frame with a glass and gold tone surround. The size of the frame is 3-1/4" * 4-1/2" Thanks so much for the reply
 
Welcome to the forum from Columbus Ohio. I have not done any research on Ohio militia uniforms but here is a pretty good thread that says early Ohio uniforms were grey with black trim:

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/ohio-state-militia.82400/

It appears that he has on the state of Ohio sword belt plate in the style used from 1861-1865 with the boat centralized and the surrounding wreath, if that helps any. Militia units often wore outdated uniforms and accoutrements though so that may not help dating this image. It also looks like he is holding a light artillery saber but it doesn't have the curve in the blade. Can anybody confirm what that sword is? NCO OR musicians sword maybe?
 
While the subject in question is wearing a two piece sword belt plate, it is impossible to positively identify it as an Ohio State sword belt plate.

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While the subject in question is wearing a two piece sword belt plate, it is impossible to positively identify it as an Ohio State sword belt plate.

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Perhaps you are right, the image is blurry and hard to discern so a positive identification is difficult and maybe even impossible. Maybe it is a confirmation bias but my eyes see what appears to be a boat with a wreath around it and a sun at the top. Would I see the same thing if it wasn't said to be a Ohio militia man? Maybe, maybe not. I am going off of what the OP stated. @mcginj is the physical image easier to make out? If so, does the plate he is wearing resemble what @Legion Para posted?
 
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Perhaps you are right, the image is blurry and hard to discern so a positive identification is difficult and maybe even impossible. Maybe it is a confirmation bias but my eyes see what appears to be a boat with a wreath around it and a sun at the top. Would I see the same thing if it wasn't said to be a Ohio militia man? Maybe, maybe not. I am going off of what the OP stated. @mcginj is the physical image easier to make out? If so, does the plate he is wearing resemble what @Legion Para posted?

It is a small image and without cutting into the leather frame and pulling out the tin image I do not believe I can get a better image. I cannot imagine that a family from Gallia and Jackson county Ohio with all my Civil war ancestors would be anything other than an Ohio Soldier. These were all Ohio farm boys.
 
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It is a small image and without cutting into the leather frame and pulling out the tin image I do not believe I can get a better image. I cannot imagine that a family from Gallia and Jackson county Ohio with all my Civil war ancestors would be anything other than an Ohio Soldier. These were all Ohio farm boys.
Please do not risk damaging the image. It is a great piece of history and I hope somebody can help give more precise information than I can.
 
Legion, can you please help me by what you mean by two piece sword belt?
There are many different patterns of two piece sword plates, that is to say the belt plate itself and a separate keeper that is sewn onto the belt to join the ends.
The other common one during the Civil War is the 1851 pattern shown below
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The plate worn by enlisted men was normally a one piece oval with either US, OVI, SNY, etc on the obverse. This plate was attached to both ends of the belt using the hooks on the reverse of the plate.
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Legion, can you please help me by what you mean by two piece sword belt?

@Billw12280 answered your question about the two piece sword belt plate. He also pointed out that a Model 1851 sword belt plate might be worn in the image.

There is a safe way to remove the tintype from the leatherette case without causing any damage.

Being a tintype it is very possible this image was taken post war.
 
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