Artillery Reenacting

[MAPMFF]

Real dumb question here.

Living in New England, most of my reenacting experience has been with Revolutionary War, artillery isn't well represented in the reenacting scene around here, one unit does RA and has small 3lb grasshopper cannons, easily moved about the field. I did ACW infantry reenacting for a season and a half, but mainly small local events around here so I never really got to see the logistical side of handling guns, that said..

I am strongly looking into forming a good, authentic artillery unit, the research continues into different specific units or a more generic impression, but I am eyeballing three types of guns to get into, Napoleon, 3" Ordnance or a 10lb Parrott, eventually, loftier aspirations include having an example of all three and maybe an 1841 6lb for early war events, but I digress. Short of having horses (which are not an option) how does one move the guns and limbers around at events? Is it towed into place with a vehicle and set for the duration of a battle/scenario, or do we all grab a piece and haul it around by hand?

 

[frontrank2]

Speaking from my own experience, 30 years as an infantryman, 95% of the time I have observed the artillery being set up and placed in position prior to the start of a battle. Not many units have the limber or more importantly, the horses to pull the guns.

 

[captaindrew]

At mainstream events the pieces are placed by vehicles ahead of time. At smaller events where they don't have to go far you can do it by hand with enough help. There are a few units around that do it with horsepower which is really cool but not the norm.

 

[drezac]

With artillery, we are first on the field and the last off. The guns are moved with designated tow vehicles. we typically form up and head out to the field about 1 to 1 1/2 hours before the battle is scheduled to start. Once the guns are in place, the tow vehicles are moved to an out of sight location. We take a break, then cuss a little when command tells us to move the guns to a different location ( this happens too many times). Typically we will be in different locations for each battle. It is rare to have guns move during a battle, primarily due to the logistics of needing to use tow vehicles. If the guns are moved during the battle, it will usually be very limited and done by hand.

as far as guns, 3" Ordnance Rifles or 3" Parrots would be a good choice. The issues with both the 12 and 6 -pdr guns, are that to do it right, they should be bronze. Steen and Trail Rock both state "call for price" on bronze guns, so it's one of those 'If you have to ask, you can't afford it" items. FYI, a while back I did price out a trail rock ordnance bronze coated steel 6-pdr. Gun, carriage, limber, limber box an all equipment needed to fire it was around $25,000. Not including a trailer to haul it on.

One item on a 12-pdr is the cost for firing. Since a 12-pdr was designed for a 2-lb service charge, when firing blanks it's hard to go under 1lb powder - less than that and the round ends up behind the vent and it can't be fired. our battery has operated the State of Ohio's original 12-pdr guns. we estimate the cost to fire it for powder and primer is close to $24 per shot ( purchasing powder in bulk 50lb bags). so by going with the 3" ordnance rifle or parrot you can keep your costs down.

 

[Dan Kohli]

From experience as others have mentioned before that generally the pieces are placed in their positions before the battle reenactment. Moving the piece around the battlefield does adds something to the battle than the typical static position and counter battery fire action. The movement of the piece would require a limber and gun detachment willing to move it. When moving the gun by hand during the battle have the gunner or the chef of piece steer by using the limber pole and the rest of the gun crew push the piece and not on the limber.

 

[Jantzen64]

Good luck on your search!

Your post reminded me of one of my reenacting memories - was at the Mudloh event in Tennessee and got to see a two horse drawn limber (not exactly period but still cool) bringing a field piece into position. We dumb ground pounders just enjoyed watching the team work the horses and cannon with care and precision. After unlimbering the field piece, they started to lead the horses and limber away and something - still don't know what - spooked the horses and one started kicking to try to get away from the traces, etc. The guys backed off and by the time they got the horse calmed down, the limber was in pieces. I'm mostly a city boy, and had never seen the true power of horse flesh. We got called to move out, so I never got to see how those guys disentangled the horse from the fragments of the limber.

War is a messy business!

 

[Belfoured]

Real dumb question here.

Living in New England, most of my reenacting experience has been with Revolutionary War, artillery isn't well represented in the reenacting scene around here, one unit does RA and has small 3lb grasshopper cannons, easily moved about the field. I did ACW infantry reenacting for a season and a half, but mainly small local events around here so I never really got to see the logistical side of handling guns, that said..

I am strongly looking into forming a good, authentic artillery unit, the research continues into different specific units or a more generic impression, but I am eyeballing three types of guns to get into, Napoleon, 3" Ordnance or a 10lb Parrott, eventually, loftier aspirations include having an example of all three and maybe an 1841 6lb for early war events, but I digress. Short of having horses (which are not an option) how does one move the guns and limbers around at events? Is it towed into place with a vehicle and set for the duration of a battle/scenario, or do we all grab a piece and haul it around by hand?

I share your observation about AWI artillery re-enactments. The only regular unit that I'm aware of is the Lamb's Artillery unit that puts on demos at Yorktown and elsewhere. I once had the opportunity to participate in an exercise with a couple of replica Light 6 lb Battalion guns. Unlike the 3 lb "grasshoppers"/"butterflies", those suckers require maneuver by drag ropes with their bracket carriages and mounted ammo boxes. The mattrosses didn't get paid enough.

 

[MAPMFF]

I share your observation about AWI artillery re-enactments. The only regular unit that I'm aware of is the Lamb's Artillery unit that puts on demos at Yorktown and elsewhere. I once had the opportunity to participate in an exercise with a couple of replica Light 6 lb Battalion guns. Unlike the 3 lb "grasshoppers"/"butterflies", those suckers require maneuver by drag ropes with their bracket carriages and mounted ammo boxes. The mattrosses didn't get paid enough.

A good friend of mine run an AWI unit here in New England, they are on FB if anyone is interested to check them out, "Royal Artillery, 7th Company 3rd battalion" they do some good stuff and move alllll over the battlefield with their gun, up and down hills, they had an event where they rigged up a rope bridge and took the guns across a small ravine piece by piece.

 

[Belfoured]

A good friend of mine run an AWI unit here in New England, they are on FB if anyone is interested to check them out, "Royal Artillery, 7th Company 3rd battalion" they do some good stuff and move alllll over the battlefield with their gun, up and down hills, they had an event where they rigged up a rope bridge and took the guns across a small ravine piece by piece.

Thanks for the "heads up". I checked out the FB page and there they are - drag ropes and all. Excellent.

 

[MAPMFF]

With artillery, we are first on the field and the last off. The guns are moved with designated tow vehicles. we typically form up and head out to the field about 1 to 1 1/2 hours before the battle is scheduled to start. Once the guns are in place, the tow vehicles are moved to an out of sight location. We take a break, then cuss a little when command tells us to move the guns to a different location ( this happens too many times). Typically we will be in different locations for each battle. It is rare to have guns move during a battle, primarily due to the logistics of needing to use tow vehicles. If the guns are moved during the battle, it will usually be very limited and done by hand.

as far as guns, 3" Ordnance Rifles or 3" Parrots would be a good choice. The issues with both the 12 and 6 -pdr guns, are that to do it right, they should be bronze. Steen and Trail Rock both state "call for price" on bronze guns, so it's one of those 'If you have to ask, you can't afford it" items. FYI, a while back I did price out a trail rock ordnance bronze coated steel 6-pdr. Gun, carriage, limber, limber box an all equipment needed to fire it was around $25,000. Not including a trailer to haul it on.

One item on a 12-pdr is the cost for firing. Since a 12-pdr was designed for a 2-lb service charge, when firing blanks it's hard to go under 1lb powder - less than that and the round ends up behind the vent and it can't be fired. our battery has operated the State of Ohio's original 12-pdr guns. we estimate the cost to fire it for powder and primer is close to $24 per shot ( purchasing powder in bulk 50lb bags). so by going with the 3" ordnance rifle or parrot you can keep your costs down.

For sh*ts and gigs, I did ask Steen about an 1857 12 pounder, the price for the tube alone in solid bronze was 30k! Which given the cost of metals these days and the work that goes into it, probably not unreasonable, but too rich for my blood at this point. I would consider a bronze coated steel gun, but we'll see. Ideally I'd like to pick something up second hand, have watched some auctions as of late at private auction houses and on ebay, and those always entail a bit of luck but the prices have not been awful.

I lean more towards a generic Federal "battery" but with the ability to adapt to time frames and the like, I've always participated in authentic units and would want that to carry over, but don't necessarily want to be tied to a specific type of gun necessarily.

 

[MAPMFF]

Thanks for the "heads up". I checked out the FB page and there they are - drag ropes and all. Excellent.

They do a good job, we have an event each year here in Massachusetts at Old Sturbridge Village, which is an excellent venue, but its usually the first weekend in August, and those poor guys, despite being soaked and sweat and looking next to death always wear as smile!

 

[MAPMFF]

Regarding the rest of the replies, I appreciate the insight and it is much as I figured. I am a relatively young gun in the game still at 35 years old, and as much as I love burning powder, I really enjoy the living history side of things and coming up with a good interactive display for events, hanging out and talking with folks is just as enjoyable. Some of the best events I've attended across the years didn't involve firing a single shot.

 

[MAPMFF]

And lastly from the outside looking in, the group First Section, seems to be doing an amazing job, from impressions to operations, the horses etc, a high bar to beat, I would emulate their impression standards, If its worth doing, its worth doing right.

One thing I've seemed to see in photos and videos is that artillery units have pristine guns, but the impressions leave a lot to be desired, bright red bib shirts, massive straw hats, red everything really. Having pride in the artillery branch is applaudable, but I can't imagine that line battery units on campaign had much but standard issue equipment.

Which brings me to another question, If I were to end up commissioning a new piece
I've seen Trail Rock and I know about Steen, any other foundries/companies that put out a good product that is historically accurate and good for live fire. Ideally a one stop shop gun/carriage would be great.

 

[Belfoured]

They do a good job, we have an event each year here in Massachusetts at Old Sturbridge Village, which is an excellent venue, but its usually the first weekend in August, and those poor guys, despite being soaked and sweat and looking next to death always wear as smile!

I've always tried to see myself in either side's artillery on June 28, 1778 in central New Jersey. 100 [ ]'g degrees in the shade.

 

[MAPMFF]

I've always tried to see myself in either side's artillery on June 28, 1778 in central New Jersey. 100 [ ]'g degrees in the shade.

Couldn't imagine, hot day and hot guns and no where to hide in the shade.

 

[drezac]

@MAPMFF , for 30k you might be able to find an original tube. The Trail Rock bronze coated guns look good on their web site. However, I have seen a couple on the field and close up was not overly impressed. The couple I have seen had a lot of swirl marks in the bronze, looked to be from grinding or polishing. I don't know if there were different levels of finish on the coating offered by Trail Rock or if that's just how they arrive. I would have expected the finish to be smooth and polished.

Steen does excellent work. The Ohio State house has 2 of their aluminum display carriages for the state house lawn. They also built the State House 2 new wood carriages using the existing hardware from 2 carriages that were in bad shape.

 

[Belfoured]

@MAPMFF , for 30k you might be able to find an original tube. The Trail Rock bronze coated guns look good on their web site. However, I have seen a couple on the field and close up was not overly impressed. The couple I have seen had a lot of swirl marks in the bronze, looked to be from grinding or polishing. I don't know if there were different levels of finish on the coating offered by Trail Rock or if that's just how they arrive. I would have expected the finish to be smooth and polished.

Steen does excellent work. The Ohio State house has 2 of their aluminum display carriages for the state house lawn. They also built the State House 2 new wood carriages using the existing hardware from 2 carriages that were in bad shape.

Of course, for an original tube that can be positively id'd as such, 30K might be a bargain. I've seen numbers like 50K and higher

 

[14NYSM]

What area of New England are you in? I know in the NH/Ma area there is /was the 5th mass battery, the 5th Maine battery and the Lafayette Artillery units. The first two had 30 pdr parrots and the last an original 6 pdr. All three being Union Artillery reenactors, though the Lafayette Artillery did Rebel impressions if the event needed to balance out the forces. The 1st NH Cav has broken up, but we used to use this full-size 12 pdr mtn howitzer. This photo was taken in Lowell, Ma. at their Memorial Day ceremony a few years back. that's me on the right.

 

[OhioBlue16]

And lastly from the outside looking in, the group First Section, seems to be doing an amazing job, from impressions to operations, the horses etc, a high bar to beat, I would emulate their impression standards, If its worth doing, its worth doing right.

One thing I've seemed to see in photos and videos is that artillery units have pristine guns, but the impressions leave a lot to be desired, bright red bib shirts, massive straw hats, red everything really. Having pride in the artillery branch is applaudable, but I can't imagine that line battery units on campaign had much but standard issue equipment.

Which brings me to another question, If I were to end up commissioning a new piece
I've seen Trail Rock and I know about Steen, any other foundries/companies that put out a good product that is historically accurate and good for live fire. Ideally a one stop shop gun/carriage would be great.

First section does an amazing job! I was able to witness them first hand when I was doing Rosecran's pursuit. They were moving around the field using horses and setting up with no modern tools. They added an element to the event not often seen

 

[MAPMFF]

What area of New England are you in? I know in the NH/Ma area there is /was the 5th mass battery, the 5th Maine battery and the Lafayette Artillery units. The first two had 30 pdr parrots and the last an original 6 pdr. All three being Union Artillery reenactors, though the Lafayette Artillery did Rebel impressions if the event needed to balance out the forces. The 1st NH Cav has broken up, but we used to use this full-size 12 pdr mtn howitzer. This photo was taken in Lowell, Ma. at their Memorial Day ceremony a few years back. that's me on the right.

View attachment 431973

That's a good looking piece.

Unfortunately despite my love for the era it does compete with my love for the Revolutionary War, and given the amount of RevWar events vs Civil War events in the area, I've decided I'm going to make my reenacting return to the Rev War era, to make the sizeable investment into a gun the RevWar era is going to provide me many more and closer opportunities to field with it. Which now has me on the arguably harder hunt for ideally a 6 pound English gun or 3 pounder reproduction with appropriate split tail carriage.