Artillery Clinometer (maybe?)

[BuddyC]

Hello,
Just found this forum. I tend to purchase things I have no idea what they are then hope to figure them out. I just got the item below. Most replies I've received say it's a gunners quadrant or artillery clinometer. I've not been able to find another example like this one. It has 2 spirit bubbles and is graduated in degrees, not mils. I got one suggestion that maybe it was as old as Civil War related to the angles that mortars had to be set at.
That's my story. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
BuddyC

 

[UCVRelics]

Its a WW1 gunners quadrant level.

 

[R. Porter]

Hello,
Just found this forum. I tend to purchase things I have no idea what they are then hope to figure them out. I just got the item below. Most replies I've received say it's a gunners quadrant or artillery clinometer. I've not been able to find another example like this one. It has 2 spirit bubbles and is graduated in degrees, not mils. I got one suggestion that maybe it was as old as Civil War related to the angles that mortars had to be set at.
That's my story. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
BuddyC

View attachment 518415

You had me at "I tend to purchase things I have no idea what they are then hope to figure them out." Welcome to CivilWarTalk!

 

[Rhea Cole]

I believe what you have is a construction tool. I could not ind a reference to Civil War clinometer.

Here are a couple of related links:

Artillery clinometer

Brass clinometer shaped like a section of a circle with a pivoting metal cylinder with a bubble level in it and a numerical scale. The clinometer has a wooden box that is lined with blue-grey felt and has a hinged lid. The box is also shaped like a section of a circle.

www.iwm.org.uk

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Image-4-In-the-early-part-of-the-war-the-clinometers-used-were-the-same-as-for_fig4_323525111

 

[BuddyC]

I believe what you have is a construction tool. I could not ind a reference to Civil War clinometer.

Here are a couple of related links:

Artillery clinometer

Brass clinometer shaped like a section of a circle with a pivoting metal cylinder with a bubble level in it and a numerical scale. The clinometer has a wooden box that is lined with blue-grey felt and has a hinged lid. The box is also shaped like a section of a circle.

www.iwm.org.uk

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Image-4-In-the-early-part-of-the-war-the-clinometers-used-were-the-same-as-for_fig4_323525111

I thought that might be a possibility but all of the other responses I've received have been for Quadrant/Clinometer. The back side is green, not unlike military.

 

[Rhea Cole]

I thought that might be a possibility but all of the other responses I've received have been for Quadrant/Clinometer. The back side is green, not unlike military.

I believe these links will clarify the situation:

https://www.forestry-suppliers.com/Documents/4160_msds.pdf

What Jobs Use a Clinometer?

What Jobs Use a Clinometer?. How tall is that tree? What is the slope of the hill in a new development? These are some of the questions that can be answered by using an instrument called a clinometer, which can measure both height and the gradient of an i

work.chron.com

What you are thinking of is a gunner's quadrant:

https://npshistory.com/series/interpretive/3/is3e.htm

 

[BuddyC]

I believe these links will clarify the situation:

https://www.forestry-suppliers.com/Documents/4160_msds.pdf

What Jobs Use a Clinometer?

What Jobs Use a Clinometer?. How tall is that tree? What is the slope of the hill in a new development? These are some of the questions that can be answered by using an instrument called a clinometer, which can measure both height and the gradient of an i

work.chron.com

What you are thinking of is a gunner's quadrant:

https://npshistory.com/series/interpretive/3/is3e.htm

Your second link does not work. For the first one, that is just one of many applications for clinometers. There are also artillery instruments called clinometers that are used in similar fashion to quadrants. However, no matter what you call it, I cannot find another example of anything like this with 2 bubbles. Just hoping it rings a bell with someone who might know what it is. I'm casting a wide net, including this group to try and solve the mystery.
Thanks

 

[James Brenner]

I, too, think it's a gunners quadrant, but I suspect it may be pre-WW1, when indirect fire procedures were in their infancy and split trail artillery carriages allowed for high angle fire. The Russo-Japanese War was when most observed fire techniques were developed and the fact that the quadrant is marked in degrees and not mils suggests an early version.

The design of the quadrant makes me think that it was intended to set one level for high angle fire (65 degrees, for example) and the other level for a low angle fire; 10 degrees, or so. Depending upon the fire mission, the quadrant could be flipped for either high or low angle fire and the levels themselves could be quickly adjusted to make corrections. The knurled nuts suggest that. It's flat sides would allow the quadrant to be placed on the breech block during aiming procedures and removed before firing.

Are there any markings on the quadrant at all: manufacturer, Line of Fire, date, serial number, model number? It's quite likely it is not American made. It's a little curious that it is not made of brass.

A note to the Imperial War Museum in London may be able to identify this positively. Their display on gunnery in WW1 is phenomenal.

Of course, if it turns out that it is not a gunners quadrant, disregard all the above.

I hope this helps a bit.

 

[BuddyC]

I, too, think it's a gunners quadrant, but I suspect it may be pre-WW1, when indirect fire procedures were in their infancy and split trail artillery carriages allowed for high angle fire. The Russo-Japanese War was when most observed fire techniques were developed and the fact that the quadrant is marked in degrees and not mils suggests an early version.

The design of the quadrant makes me think that it was intended to set one level for high angle fire (65 degrees, for example) and the other level for a low angle fire; 10 degrees, or so. Depending upon the fire mission, the quadrant could be flipped for either high or low angle fire and the levels themselves could be quickly adjusted to make corrections. The knurled nuts suggest that. It's flat sides would allow the quadrant to be placed on the breech block during aiming procedures and removed before firing.

Are there any markings on the quadrant at all: manufacturer, Line of Fire, date, serial number, model number? It's quite likely it is not American made. It's a little curious that it is not made of brass.

A note to the Imperial War Museum in London may be able to identify this positively. Their display on gunnery in WW1 is phenomenal.

Of course, if it turns out that it is not a gunners quadrant, disregard all the above.

I hope this helps a bit.

Lots of info. Very interesting. Thanks for your reply.

 

[Rhea Cole]

I, too, think it's a gunners quadrant, but I suspect it may be pre-WW1, when indirect fire procedures were in their infancy and split trail artillery carriages allowed for high angle fire. The Russo-Japanese War was when most observed fire techniques were developed and the fact that the quadrant is marked in degrees and not mils suggests an early version.

The design of the quadrant makes me think that it was intended to set one level for high angle fire (65 degrees, for example) and the other level for a low angle fire; 10 degrees, or so. Depending upon the fire mission, the quadrant could be flipped for either high or low angle fire and the levels themselves could be quickly adjusted to make corrections. The knurled nuts suggest that. It's flat sides would allow the quadrant to be placed on the breech block during aiming procedures and removed before firing.

Are there any markings on the quadrant at all: manufacturer, Line of Fire, date, serial number, model number? It's quite likely it is not American made. It's a little curious that it is not made of brass.

A note to the Imperial War Museum in London may be able to identify this positively. Their display on gunnery in WW1 is phenomenal.

Of course, if it turns out that it is not a gunners quadrant, disregard all the above.

I hope this helps a bit.

This is a clinometer commonly used in forestry.

Link to WWI gunner's quadrant:

Gunner's quadrant | Royal Museums Greenwich

www.rmg.co.uk

 

[Rhea Cole]

No need to speculate on how a gunner's quadrant was used.

Link to manual for using the M1918 gunner's quadrant:

https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/TM/pdfs/TM9-1527.pdf

 

[James Brenner]

No need to speculate on how a gunner's quadrant was used.

Link to manual for using the M1918 gunner's quadrant:

https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/TM/pdfs/TM9-1527.pdf

This type of quadrant is the exact model we used in Germany in 1979. When something works, it works, eh? Kind of like the M2 heavy barrel machine gun.

No need to speculate on how a gunner's quadrant was used.

Link to manual for using the M1918 gunner's quadrant:

https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/TM/pdfs/TM9-1527.pdf

For the actual use of this type quadrant, the technical manual for the M109A1 self-propelled howitzer describes the procedures:

No need to speculate on how a gunner's quadrant was used.

Link to manual for using the M1918 gunner's quadrant:

https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/TM/pdfs/TM9-1527.pdf

If anyone is interested, instructions on how to use a gunners quadrant are detailed in TM 9-2350-311-10, Operators Manual for Howitzer, Medium, Self-Propelled, 155mm available on Archive.org.

Explaining how to do an end for end or micrometer test will guarantee that you will leave your friends speechless.

 

[Rhea Cole]

This type of quadrant is the exact model we used in Germany in 1979. When something works, it works, eh? Kind of like the M2 heavy barrel machine gun.

For the actual use of this type quadrant, the technical manual for the M109A1 self-propelled howitzer describes the procedures:

If anyone is interested, instructions on how to use a gunners quadrant are detailed in TM 9-2350-311-10, Operators Manual for Howitzer, Medium, Self-Propelled, 155mm available on Archive.org.

Explaining how to do an end for end or micrometer test will guarantee that you will leave your friends speechless.

Our quartet of 1841 beauties don't go in for such fancy doings. Somebody noticed that mirror polished bronze had a, "Shoot the bullets here & please kill me!" quality about it. After Stones River they went to a natural patina… sergeants wept openly, no doubt.

The mighty artillery war in Ukraine must have your attention.

 

[James Brenner]

View attachment 518610
Our quartet of 1841 beauties don't go in for such fancy doings. Somebody noticed that mirror polished bronze had a, "Shoot the bullets here & please kill me!" quality about it. After Stones River they went to a natural patina… sergeants wept openly, no doubt.

The mighty artillery war in Ukraine must have your attention.

Very nice. You know, after watching the artillery duels in Ukraine it has occurred to me that, over the centuries, the mission of the field artillery remains the same: to sling, hurl, throw, or shoot something objectionable at someone else. It's just the means that have changed.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Very nice. You know, after watching the artillery duels in Ukraine it has occurred to me that, over the centuries, the mission of the field artillery remains the same: to sling, hurl, throw, or shoot something objectionable at someone else. It's just the means that have changed.

Have you ever looked at the artillery of the Roman army? It makes your point, indeed.