Armament McLaws' Regts - Document Help needed

[lelliott19]

Looking for a document "Report of the Armament of the Regiments of McLaws' Division" of 20 May 1863

I found a reference to Lieut Edwin Taliaferro's "Report of the Armament of the Regiments of McLaws' Division" dated 20 May, 1863. Taliaferro was McLaws' ordnance officer and the document is supposed to be in his paper.

I have looked through all 366 pages of Taliaferro's records at Fold 3 (listed under officers as "Tallaferro, Edwin") without any luck. I'm assuming Edwin Taliaferro's papers are located in a library somewhere?

Does anyone know where this document might be located? Any help appreciated.

 

[Championhilz]

I found this transcription from another website (http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=188640):

The "Report of the Armament of the Regiments of McLaws' Division, 20 May, 1863" in the papers of Lt. Edwin Taliaferro, the ordnance officer for McLaws, should give you a baseline to work from.

Barksdale's Brigade
13th Miss – 171 .58 Springfield Rifle; 252 .57 Long Enfield; 6 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 4 Other Rifles Meant for Cavalry Service; 2 .54 Miss Rifles.
17th Miss – 206 .58 Springfield Rifle; 234 .57 Long Enfield; 11 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 2 Other Rifles Meant for Cavalry Service.
18th Miss – 248 .58 Springfield Rifle; 93 .57 Long Enfield; 11 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 2 Other Rifles Meant for Cavalry Service.
21st Miss – 113 .58 Springfield Rifle; 252 .57 Long Enfield; 45 .57 Short Enfield Rifle.

Wofford's Brigade
Cobb's Legion – 68 .58 Springfield Rifle; 10 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 152 .57 Enfield Musket; 70 .69 Springfield Musket.
Phillip's Legion – 227 .58 Springfield Rifle; 13 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 102 .57 Enfield Musket; 173 .69 Springfield Musket.
16th Ga – 95 .58 Springfield Rifle; 99 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 187 .57 Enfield Musket; 70 .69 Springfield Musket.
18th Ga – 113 .58 Springfield Rifle; 1 .57 Long Enfield; 24 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 134 .57 Enfield Musket; 50 .69 Springfield Musket.
24th Ga – 176 .58 Springfield Rifle; 18 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 248 .57 Enfield Musket; 112 .69 Springfield Musket.

Semmes' Brigade
10th Ga – 165 .58 Springfield Rifle; 61 .57 Long Enfield; 5 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 2 Other Rifles Meant for Cavalry Service; 2 .54 Miss Rifles; 13 .69 Springfield Musket.
50th Ga – 10 .58 Springfield Rifle; 33 .57 Long Enfield; 18 .54 Miss Rifles; 33 .69 Springfield Musket.
51st Ga – 90 .58 Springfield Rifle; 239 .57 Long Enfield; 20 .57 Short Enfield Rifle.
53rd Ga – 31 .58 Springfield Rifle; 50 .57 Long Enfield; 1 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 37 .69 Springfield Musket.

Kershaw's Brigade
2nd SC – 90 .58 Springfield Rifle; 250 .57 Long Enfield; 30 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 3 Other Rifles Meant for Cavalry Service; 1 .54 Miss Rifles; 5 .69 Springfield Musket.
3rd SC – 84 .58 Springfield Rifle; 86 .57 Long Enfield; 2 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 38 .54 Miss Rifles; 199 .69 Springfield Musket.
7th SC – 78 .58 Springfield Rifle; 260 .57 Long Enfield; 9 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 2 .54 Miss Rifles; 27 .69 Springfield Musket.
8th SC – 175 .58 Springfield Rifle; 65 .57 Long Enfield; 4 Other Rifles Meant for Cavalry Service; 29 .54 Miss Rifles.
15th SC – 76 .58 Springfield Rifle; 54 .57 Long Enfield; 2 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 41 .54 Miss Rifles; 208 .69 Springfield Musket.
3rd SC Btn – 23 .58 Springfield Rifle; 38 .57 Long Enfield; 3 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 155 .69 Springfield Musket.

 

[lelliott19]

Thanks @Championhilz

I appreciate that. I would still like to locate Taliaferro's original papers .....no telling what else might be in there!

I did find that, in his book, The Antietam Campaign, Gary Gallagher references Edwin Taliaferro's papers related to "Report of Armament of Kershaw's Brigade, Dec 30, 1862" and "Armament of Barksdale's Brigade."

Gallagher cites the papers as follows:
Edwin Taliaferro Papers, RG 109, War Department Collection of Confederate Records, box 1, folder titled "Taliaferro Papers," entry 134A, NA.

I'm assuming that means the papers are at the National Archives? but not available at Fold3?

 

[Mr. King]

Such a Hodge-podge. That is a logistical nightmare... Random .54 MS rifles sprinkled here and there. Cavalry arms.... You would think that there would be an effort to arm an entire brigade with .58 Springfields and so on, and so forth... Collect all the weapons in the division, sort them out, then make an honest effort at distributing them so as to avoid mixing units as much as possible.

 

[lelliott19]

Such a Hodge-podge. That is a logistical nightmare... Random .54 MS rifles sprinkled here and there. Cavalry arms.... You would think that there would be an effort to arm an entire brigade with .58 Springfields and so on, and so forth... Collect all the weapons in the division, sort them out, then make an honest effort at distributing them so as to avoid mixing units as much as possible.

Indeed, and yet it was significantly improved from July, 1862, as described by Lt Col Christopher Columbus Sanders, commanding the 24th GA:

Camp near Richmond July 15, 1862
Col. T R R Cobb
Below please find a descriptive list of the fire arms as returned by the Company commanders of this Regt

Springfield Muskets..... cal 69 ......231
Minie Muskets..............cal 58.......122_____________353
Enfield Rifle ..................cal 54*......182
Springfield ....................cal [ ]..........8
Harpers Ferry................cal 54.........7
Belgium..........................cal [ ].........4
Mississippi......................cal [ ].........2_____________203 = 556 - 403
(wanted) Springfield Muskets 153

The difficulty attending the distribution of ammunition for the above described firearms _ causes me to respectfully suggest to you, to retain for my flank companies, the Enfield Rifle_ and for the other companies, the Springfield Musket.
Respectfully submitted,
C. C. Sanders
Lt Col Comdg 24th Geo Regt

*Im assuming that Sanders either made his "7"s funny and/or was confused about the caliber of the .57 Enfields and the .58 Harper's Ferry?

 

[captaindrew]

Such a Hodge-podge. That is a logistical nightmare... Random .54 MS rifles sprinkled here and there. Cavalry arms.... You would think that there would be an effort to arm an entire brigade with .58 Springfields and so on, and so forth... Collect all the weapons in the division, sort them out, then make an honest effort at distributing them so as to avoid mixing units as much as possible.

They did their best to try to do just that, they did for the most part at the company level. Federal troops had the same problem early in the war

 

[mofederal]

Pretty interesting reading. A lot of .69's. A logistical nightmare for the ordinance people. I am surprised by the number of cavalry weapons issued to an infantry regiment. There is not a lot of them listed, but enough. The returns of muskets is also interesting part, but it doesn't say why they were returned. Defective or for other problems. It would be something to learn why. Thanks for the posts.

 

[captaindrew]

I'm wondering if the few cavalry rifles belonged to men who were in the cavalry and lost their mount. Confederate cavalrymen had to supply their own horses and if they lost them and couldn't replace them they became instant infantryman. Just a guess

 

[DaveBrt]

Thanks @Championhilz

I appreciate that. I would still like to locate Taliaferro's original papers .....no telling what else might be in there!

I did find that, in his book, The Antietam Campaign, Gary Gallagher references Edwin Taliaferro's papers related to "Report of Armament of Kershaw's Brigade, Dec 30, 1862" and "Armament of Barksdale's Brigade."

Gallagher cites the papers as follows:
Edwin Taliaferro Papers, RG 109, War Department Collection of Confederate Records, box 1, folder titled "Taliaferro Papers," entry 134A, NA.

I'm assuming that means the papers are at the National Archives? but not available at Fold3?

Yes, they are in archive boxes for on-site inspection. The one I used on Confederate Railroads had about 500 pages of bills from the railroads to the government. The long forms had been folded when received and remain folded -- so opening them frequently caused the pages to break apart. The bottom of the box was full of fragments of pages. I am certain they will never be digitized. Hopefully, your document will be in better condition. Call them for ordering and copying information.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

There's is a distinct possibility Lt. Col. Sanders was referring to Austrian Lorenz muskets as "Enfields".
J.

 

[ikesdad]

Now that is a distinct possibility as some are listed as "54"

There's is a distinct possibility Lt. Col. Sanders was referring to Austrian Lorenz muskets as "Enfields".
J.

 

[captaindrew]

Now that is a distinct possibility as some are listed as "54"

Mississippi rifles were .54 also

 

[captaindrew]

Oh, my bad you must be looking at the earlier report, I'm assuming the Harpers Ferry .54s are Mississippis

 

[Mr. King]

Indeed, and yet it was significantly improved from July, 1862, as described by Lt Col Christopher Columbus Sanders, commanding the 24th GA:

Camp near Richmond July 15, 1862
Col. T R R Cobb
Below please find a descriptive list of the fire arms as returned by the Company commanders of this Regt

Springfield Muskets..... cal 69 ......231
Minie Muskets..............cal 58.......122_____________353
Enfield Rifle ..................cal 54*......182
Springfield ....................cal [ ]..........8
Harpers Ferry................cal 54.........7
Belgium..........................cal [ ].........4
Mississippi......................cal [ ].........2_____________203 = 556 - 403
(wanted) Springfield Muskets 153

The difficulty attending the distribution of ammunition for the above described firearms _ causes me to respectfully suggest to you, to retain for my flank companies, the Enfield Rifle_ and for the other companies, the Springfield Musket.
Respectfully submitted,
C. C. Sanders
Lt Col Comdg 24th Geo Regt

*Im assuming that Sanders either made his "7"s funny and/or was confused about the caliber of the .57 Enfields and the .58 Harper's Ferry?

probably did the weird French 7 with a dash across it like a t

 

[Mr. King]

Also, I expect that the cavalry arms where dismounted, temporarily attached cavalryman. But, they might also be kept by designated skirmishes or officers, I suspect. I have read about infantry officers having repeaters for occasional pot-shots.

 

[rpkennedy]

To be fair, even by the time of Gettysburg, many Union regiments had mixed bags of weapons on their TO&E.

Ryan

 

[lelliott19]

I'm wondering if the few cavalry rifles belonged to men who were in the cavalry and lost their mount. Confederate cavalrymen had to supply their own horses and if they lost them and couldn't replace them they became instant infantryman. Just a guess

Not the case here.....just for clarification purposes, one of the Infantry regiments in McLaws Division was actually issued a large number of the guns you are referring to as "cavalry rifles" .....the short Enfield rifles.... in the Fall of 1861:
557 Enfield Rifles with saber bayonet
310 Enfield Muskets
867 Total Enfield firearms of both types issued to one of the regiments- brand new from the crates

@Jobe Holiday I'm assuming they were ordered to give them up to the flank companies of each regiment in the division and to the sharpshooter Battalion when they were formed in April 1863? Also, since the Sharpshooter Battn wasnt "official" yet on May 20, 1863, should I assume that the numbers above include the men and their guns in the numbers for their prior regiments?

@DaveBrt Thanks! Can you remind me how to order document copies?

@Podad @Chattahooch33 ...of interest to you

 

[captaindrew]

Not the case here.....just for clarification purposes, one of the Infantry regiments in McLaws Division was actually issued a large number of the guns you are referring to as "cavalry rifles" .....the short Enfield rifles.... in the Fall of 1861:
557 Enfield Rifles with saber bayonet
310 Enfield Muskets
867 Total Enfield firearms of both types issued to one of the regiments- brand new from the crates

@Jobe Holiday I'm assuming they were ordered to give them up to the flank companies of each regiment in the division and to the sharpshooter Battalion when they were formed in April 1863? Also, since the Sharpshooter Battn wasnt "official" yet on May 20, 1863, should I assume that the numbers above include the men and their guns in the numbers for their prior regiments?

@DaveBrt Thanks! Can you remind me how to order document copies?

@Podad @Chattahooch33 ...of interest to you

The short Enfields would be the 2 band type, p58, also the rifle with the saber bayonet. These wouldn't be considered a cavalry weapon although they were used as such. They liked to give these to the flanking/skirmish companies. The Enfield musket or long rifle would be the 3 band type, p53

 

[captaindrew]

I would think a cavalry rifle would be a musketoon, carbine, shotgun, any very short longarm

 

[WJC]

I found this transcription from another website (http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=188640):

The "Report of the Armament of the Regiments of McLaws' Division, 20 May, 1863" in the papers of Lt. Edwin Taliaferro, the ordnance officer for McLaws, should give you a baseline to work from.

Barksdale's Brigade
13th Miss – 171 .58 Springfield Rifle; 252 .57 Long Enfield; 6 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 4 Other Rifles Meant for Cavalry Service; 2 .54 Miss Rifles.
17th Miss – 206 .58 Springfield Rifle; 234 .57 Long Enfield; 11 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 2 Other Rifles Meant for Cavalry Service.
18th Miss – 248 .58 Springfield Rifle; 93 .57 Long Enfield; 11 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 2 Other Rifles Meant for Cavalry Service.
21st Miss – 113 .58 Springfield Rifle; 252 .57 Long Enfield; 45 .57 Short Enfield Rifle.

Wofford's Brigade
Cobb's Legion – 68 .58 Springfield Rifle; 10 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 152 .57 Enfield Musket; 70 .69 Springfield Musket.
Phillip's Legion – 227 .58 Springfield Rifle; 13 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 102 .57 Enfield Musket; 173 .69 Springfield Musket.
16th Ga – 95 .58 Springfield Rifle; 99 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 187 .57 Enfield Musket; 70 .69 Springfield Musket.
18th Ga – 113 .58 Springfield Rifle; 1 .57 Long Enfield; 24 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 134 .57 Enfield Musket; 50 .69 Springfield Musket.
24th Ga – 176 .58 Springfield Rifle; 18 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 248 .57 Enfield Musket; 112 .69 Springfield Musket.

Semmes' Brigade
10th Ga – 165 .58 Springfield Rifle; 61 .57 Long Enfield; 5 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 2 Other Rifles Meant for Cavalry Service; 2 .54 Miss Rifles; 13 .69 Springfield Musket.
50th Ga – 10 .58 Springfield Rifle; 33 .57 Long Enfield; 18 .54 Miss Rifles; 33 .69 Springfield Musket.
51st Ga – 90 .58 Springfield Rifle; 239 .57 Long Enfield; 20 .57 Short Enfield Rifle.
53rd Ga – 31 .58 Springfield Rifle; 50 .57 Long Enfield; 1 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 37 .69 Springfield Musket.

Kershaw's Brigade
2nd SC – 90 .58 Springfield Rifle; 250 .57 Long Enfield; 30 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 3 Other Rifles Meant for Cavalry Service; 1 .54 Miss Rifles; 5 .69 Springfield Musket.
3rd SC – 84 .58 Springfield Rifle; 86 .57 Long Enfield; 2 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 38 .54 Miss Rifles; 199 .69 Springfield Musket.
7th SC – 78 .58 Springfield Rifle; 260 .57 Long Enfield; 9 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 2 .54 Miss Rifles; 27 .69 Springfield Musket.
8th SC – 175 .58 Springfield Rifle; 65 .57 Long Enfield; 4 Other Rifles Meant for Cavalry Service; 29 .54 Miss Rifles.
15th SC – 76 .58 Springfield Rifle; 54 .57 Long Enfield; 2 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 41 .54 Miss Rifles; 208 .69 Springfield Musket.
3rd SC Btn – 23 .58 Springfield Rifle; 38 .57 Long Enfield; 3 .57 Short Enfield Rifle; 155 .69 Springfield Musket.

Thanks for posting this.
One wonders about the logistics of providing ammunition for such a mix of weapons. Must have been a real challenge....