Uniforms Any thoughts on a probable Confederate jacket?

[major bill]

I went to a small local history museum here in Michigan. They had a room full of uniforms. Basically hangers, hanging on a wall. The sign near this jacket said Civil War, other than that there is no indication what this is
The jacket appear to be in good condition. The volunteer had no idea what it is, other than is is hung near some Civil War uniforms.

She said I could take it down and look it over. I hesitated and she indicated the local historical person comes in on Saturdays. I think I will go back when the 'historian' is working. Any thoughts on this jacket?

 

[major bill]

Another item hanging on a hanger. Small paper tag says "Union Officer Coat". Mislabled? Of interest is the sweater hanging with the coat. I am not knowgable about Civil War era sweaters. Note a sack coat behind the sweater.

 

[major bill]

Better view of the nearly hidden sack coat (behind the gray jacket, the light blue item to the left is probably a GAR female item. If I return I will ask to have the sack coat taken down so I can better see it. I would also love to see the Civil War socks removed from the shoes.

 

[Kurtlg]

Better view of the nearly hidden sack coat (behind the gray jacket, the light blue item to the left is probably a GAR female item. If I return I will ask to have the sack coat taken down so I can better see it. I would also love to see the Civil War socks removed from the shoes.View attachment 468829

I say reproduction. It is too clean and no fading

 

[major bill]

I say reproduction. It is too clean and no fading

The volunteer had no information about how the museum obtained it. I am giving some thought of returning when the museum 'historian' is there. The volunteer said I could set the jacket on the table and examine it. There was a lap top, a coffee cup and some other items on the table so I declined to examine it today.

It looks to be in a bit too good of condition. The benchmarks on the rear of the buttons might give a clue. Anything else I should photograph if I get a chance to examine it?

 

[Salterr]

The volunteer had no information about how the museum obtained it. I am giving some thought of returning when the museum 'historian' is there. The volunteer said I could set the jacket on the table and examine it. There was a lap top, a coffee cup and some other items on the table so I declined to examine it today.

It looks to be in a bit too good of condition. The benchmarks on the rear of the buttons might give a clue. Anything else I should photograph if I get a chance to examine it?

I have a strong feeling that the buttons will be modern Waterbury buttons and these are reproduction pieces. A museum should know how fragile uniforms are and not hang them from coat hangers. Without proper weight distribution the stitching can rip. They do however use reproduction pieces in displays to give people an idea of everything a full uniform would have with accoutrements without putting $20k+ of real items in rotation.

Checking the stitching patterns and seeing if the bottom edges of the coat are left rough are clues. The liner of the coats along with the button back-marks are great identifiers too . Union coats will have some combination of padded chest areas, ballooned sleeves, inner pockets, tail pockets, size stamps and sub inspector markings in the armpits depending on the coat style. The skirts or lower half of the frocks if I can remember correctly should be long enough when pulled up to reach the shoulders. Button hole construction too is another identifier. I can't speak at all on confederate coats though.

 

[Kurtlg]

The volunteer had no information about how the museum obtained it. I am giving some thought of returning when the museum 'historian' is there. The volunteer said I could set the jacket on the table and examine it. There was a lap top, a coffee cup and some other items on the table so I declined to examine it today.

It looks to be in a bit too good of condition. The benchmarks on the rear of the buttons might give a clue. Anything else I should photograph if I get a chance to examine it?

Check for hand versus machine stitching . I"ve read a couple of places that the vast majority of existing Confederate jackets are hand stitched .

 

[major bill]

I have a strong feeling that the buttons will be modern Waterbury buttons and these are reproduction pieces. A museum should know how fragile uniforms are and not hang them from coat hangers. Without proper weight distribution the stitching can rip. They do however use reproduction pieces in displays to give people an idea of everything a full uniform would have with accoutrements without putting $20k+ of real items in rotation.

Checking the stitching patterns and seeing if the bottom edges of the coat are left rough are clues. The liner of the coats along with the button back-marks are great identifiers too . Union coats will have some combination of padded chest areas, ballooned sleeves, inner pockets, tail pockets, size stamps and sub inspector markings in the armpits depending on the coat style. The skirts or lower half of the frocks if I can remember correctly should be long enough when pulled up to reach the shoulders. Button hole construction too is another identifier. I can't speak at all on confederate coats though.

There are perhaps 40 or more uniforms on hangers. While most are World War Two, some are from World War One. What I can see of the three Civil War coat/jackets trouser., all seem in rather good conditions. The forage cap also seems in good conditions. I did not get to examine the Civil War trousers. So many Civil War items in such good shape makes me suspicious. I think the Union frock coat and sack coat should be examined as well. Like I said, I look forward to discussing this with the reported museum 'historian'. The enlisted frock coat being labeled as an officer frock coat, makes me wonder about the level of research conducted by the museum. Even an average 'historian' should be able to tell the difference between a Civil War officer frock coat and and enlisted frock coat.

This appears to be a county museum with very limited funding. Until I get to talk with the "museum historian", I with withhold judgement. The World War One, World War Two, and Vietnam uniforms mostly show more wear than the Civil War uniforms. Some other items in the museum are legitimate, like when the volunteer picked up the Civil War photo and the case fell apart. The pile of World War One helmets show the appropriate lever of wear, tear and rust. I plan on taking a real camera when I examine the uniforms so I will not have to rely on my smart phone camera.

 

[Salterr]

There are perhaps 40 or more uniforms on hangers. While most are World War Two, some are from World War One. What I can see of the three Civil War coat/jackets trouser., all seem in rather good conditions. The forage cap also seems in good conditions. I did not get to examine the Civil War trousers. So many Civil War items in such good shape makes me suspicious. I think the Union frock coat and sack coat should be examined as well. Like I said, I look forward to discussing this with the reported museum 'historian'. The enlisted frock coat being labeled as an officer frock coat, makes me wonder about the level of research conducted by the museum. Even an average 'historian' should be able to tell the difference between a Civil War officer frock coat and and enlisted frock coat.

This appears to be a county museum with very limited funding. Until I get to talk with the "museum historian", I with withhold judgement. The World War One, World War Two, and Vietnam uniforms mostly show more wear than the Civil War uniforms. Some other items in the museum are legitimate, like when the volunteer picked up the Civil War photo and the case fell apart. The pile of World War One helmets show the appropriate lever of wear, tear and rust. I plan on taking a real camera when I examine the uniforms so I will not have to rely on my smart phone camera.

I'm excited to see what pictures you'll take. I didn't realize that this museum had other uniforms from other wars. I've always wanted to volunteer in a museum and try to see some good stuff but not sure how to go about it.

 

[Package4]

Unfortunately the Civil War uniforms are all reproductions.

 

[johan_steele]

I'm excited to see what pictures you'll take. I didn't realize that this museum had other uniforms from other wars. I've always wanted to volunteer in a museum and try to see some good stuff but not sure how to go about it.

It's as simple as walking in and asking… few are so well staffed that they will say no.

 

[major bill]

Unfortunately the Civil War uniforms are all reproductions.

The only item in the images I posted that had a reasonable looking level of age was the sweater which had some small moth holes and looked to have been used.

Most of the World War One and Two uniforms had a look of age to them. Most of the Vietnam unirorms showed wear and some were well well worn.

I think I will dive the 60 miles back to the museum on day when the reported 'Museum historian' is working. I believe talking to him would be interesting. For example does he know the 'officer' frock coat is mislabled? There are 6 or 7 Navy uniforms 2 of which I have questions about.

 

[Salterr]

It's as simple as walking in and asking… few are so well staffed that they will say no.

Thanks, I made it up to be much more difficult in my mind for some reason. I'll give it a try!

 

[captaindrew]

Check for hand versus machine stitching . I"ve read a couple of places that the vast majority of existing Confederate jackets are hand stitched .

That's not always a tell tale approach. While the majority of CS garments were indeed hand sewn there are examples of machine sewn garments. And a good quality reproduction is hand sewn, at least all the visible stitching.. One dead giveaway though is the buttonholes. The period machines could not sew buttonholes so even on a machine sewn garment the buttonholes would be hand sewn on both CS and US garments. Machine buttonholes on lower quality reproduction garments is a dead giveaway. As for the garments shown as already said, reproductions.

 

[major bill]

The latest issue of the Company of Military Collectors and Historians Journal (magazine) has a article that contains a survey on some Confederate jackets, which includes some that were machine sewn, well partly machine sewn. I found the discussion of aspects of the construction details of Confederate jackets very interesting.

 

[Nathanb1]

That's not always a tell tale approach. While the majority of CS garments were indeed hand sewn there are examples of machine sewn garments. And a good quality reproduction is hand sewn, at least all the visible stitching.. One dead giveaway though is the buttonholes. The period machines could not sew buttonholes so even on a machine sewn garment the buttonholes would be hand sewn on both CS and US garments. Machine buttonholes on lower quality reproduction garments is a dead giveaway. As for the garments shown as already said, reproductions.

Exactly…I know a few CWT members who had beautiful hand-stitched uniforms (some by them). I have a never-worn handmade Adolphus kepi I picked up in Jefferson, Texas quite a few years ago.

 

[Nathanb1]

That's not always a tell tale approach. While the majority of CS garments were indeed hand sewn there are examples of machine sewn garments. And a good quality reproduction is hand sewn, at least all the visible stitching.. One dead giveaway though is the buttonholes. The period machines could not sew buttonholes so even on a machine sewn garment the buttonholes would be hand sewn on both CS and US garments. Machine buttonholes on lower quality reproduction garments is a dead giveaway. As for the garments shown as already said, reproductions.

Exactly…I know a few CWT members who had beautiful hand-stitched uniforms (some by them). I have a never-worn handmade Adolphus kepi I picked up in Jefferson, Texas quite a few years ago.

 

[Nathanb1]

That's not always a tell tale approach. While the majority of CS garments were indeed hand sewn there are examples of machine sewn garments. And a good quality reproduction is hand sewn, at least all the visible stitching.. One dead giveaway though is the buttonholes. The period machines could not sew buttonholes so even on a machine sewn garment the buttonholes would be hand sewn on both CS and US garments. Machine buttonholes on lower quality reproduction garments is a dead giveaway. As for the garments shown as already said, reproductions.

Exactly…I know a few CWT members who had beautiful hand-stitched uniforms (some by them). I have a never-worn handmade Adolphus kepi I picked up in Jefferson, Texas quite a few years ago.

 

[Nathanb1]

That's not always a tell tale approach. While the majority of CS garments were indeed hand sewn there are examples of machine sewn garments. And a good quality reproduction is hand sewn, at least all the visible stitching.. One dead giveaway though is the buttonholes. The period machines could not sew buttonholes so even on a machine sewn garment the buttonholes would be hand sewn on both CS and US garments. Machine buttonholes on lower quality reproduction garments is a dead giveaway. As for the garments shown as already said, reproductions.

Exactly…I know a few CWT members who had beautiful hand-stitched uniforms (some by them). I have a never-worn handmade Adolphus kepi I picked up in Jefferson, Texas quite a few years ago.

 

[Nathanb1]

That's not always a tell tale approach. While the majority of CS garments were indeed hand sewn there are examples of machine sewn garments. And a good quality reproduction is hand sewn, at least all the visible stitching.. One dead giveaway though is the buttonholes. The period machines could not sew buttonholes so even on a machine sewn garment the buttonholes would be hand sewn on both CS and US garments. Machine buttonholes on lower quality reproduction garments is a dead giveaway. As for the garments shown as already said, reproductions.

Exactly…I know a few CWT members who had beautiful hand-stitched uniforms (some by them). I have a never-worn handmade Adolphus kepi I picked up in Jefferson, Texas quite a few years ago.