Ampersand C&R

[BBurkett]

Hey fellas, I was doing some cleaning and organizing of my collection and picked up an US M1840 in attic condition that had been in my possession for around 10 yrs. I bought it because the $ was right and it had initials on the lock reverse side above the lock retainer plate that matched my son's. I was about to slather it with Ballistol and saw what looked like an "&" ampersand C&R mark. Anyone here have a clear "&" so I can reference the fonts to be sure? Anyone have an idea of the Ampersand marks meaning? I know Knott doesn't list one in his book but it's a known entity. Thanks!

 

[rebracer]

As you know from reading the book, most if not all of the known C&R marks are from the Virginia Arsenals. The book explains that this C&R work was also done at the Holly Springs, MS Arsenal as well though it appears that no one knows for sure how the weapons were marked there if at all.

Your mark looks intentional to me, maybe this could be a lost mark from the MS Arsenal? Who knows.

As my interests and research is focused on the western theater I have tried with earnest to find out more about the MS Arsenal and how the weapons were marked but have not found anything better than what is included in the book.

I also note this is a cone in barrel conversion on the M1840 so it would have been done by a federal arsenal, so it would make sense it could have been a battlefield pick up for C&R. Very interesting.

 

[BBurkett]

As you know from reading the book, most if not all of the known C&R marks are from the Virginia Arsenals. The book explains that this C&R work was also done at the Holly Springs, MS Arsenal as well though it appears that no one knows for sure how the weapons were marked there if at all.

Your mark looks intentional to me, maybe this could be a lost mark from the MS Arsenal? Who knows.

As my interests and research is focused on the western theater I have tried with earnest to find out more about the MS Arsenal and how the weapons were marked but have not found anything better than what is included in the book.

I also note this is a cone in barrel conversion on the M1840 so it would have been done by a federal arsenal, so it would make sense it could have been a battlefield pick up for C&R. Very interesting.

Garrett said the same thing Re: it being an 1840 with a C&R mark. Dave Stavlo at Lodgewood believes it's a western Va state depot mark that's undocumented because of the low number refurbed hence low numbers of & being found

 

[rebracer]

Awesome! All of that sounds very promising.

I know you said you have had it for ten years but have you disassembled it and looked to see if that mark is anywhere else?

 

[BBurkett]

Awesome! All of that sounds very promising.

I know you said you have had it for ten years but have you disassembled it and looked to see if that mark is anywhere else?

No. I probably should though. Generally I see C&R marks only where this one is located

 

[rebracer]

No. I probably should though. Generally I see C&R marks only where this one is located

I agree on the main location of C&R marks, but sometimes there are other concealed markings that help fill in more of a weapons story. With this being an unusual mark we really havent seen before, I would want to see if it shows up anywhere else.

I know many are not comfortable disassembling their antique arms, but not only does it allow further investigation, but it allows for gentle cleaning and further preservation.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

According to the author of the book on these C&R marks, these are stamped only once time and only place he describes.
Now, if the barrels of a worked on gun were reproofed, they could be marked with a star mark on the barrel to show they had been proofed.
I don't know of any arms that contain both, but they were put on for different purposes - the "Richmond Star" mark is only to show the barrel withstood proof, but the other C&R mark shows someone looked over the gun as a whole and approved it.