Discussion "Aim Low" - Why?

In the Ordinance Bureau tests in Fuller the buck shot that reached 200 yards could not penetrate the paper. The balls mostly hit near the ground.
It's my understanding that the buck shot in question could not all penetrate the target, where the target was paper backed by something or at least was not just paper. This is quite different to being unable to penetrate paper by itself - buckshot was after all pronounced useful out to 200 yards, but not further, as the result of those tests.
 
A discussion some years back led to this theory. The wounding of a soldier actually took out perhaps 2 of the enemy. The person or persons carrying off a wounded comrade were temporarily "out of the fight".Not so with dead soldiers, there removal would come later when the battle was over. The wounded, especially if recognized, were carried off by an able bodied comrade or litter bearer who was not yielding a rifle at the time. Like I said just a theory.
 
An interesting diary entry about this topic by Pvt. W. E. Sloan of the 5th Tenn. Cav.(McKenzies), Ashby/JT Wheeler's Brigade of Humes Div at Pickett's Mill. Even though he says "Our casualties were light" he seems to be speaking in relation to the amount of Union dead in front of him. Based on multiple testimonies there were 143 casualties out of 500 effectives in the 5th TN cav.

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A discussion some years back led to this theory. The wounding of a soldier actually took out perhaps 2 of the enemy. The person or persons carrying off a wounded comrade were temporarily "out of the fight".Not so with dead soldiers, there removal would come later when the battle was over. The wounded, especially if recognized, were carried off by an able bodied comrade or litter bearer who was not yielding a rifle at the time. Like I said just a theory.
While it's an interesting concept, I don't think it's valid - the hit rate at a typical Civil War battle (counting all hits, wounding and fatal) was somewhere around one in two hundred. Aiming for specific bits of a person would be far beyond the typical soldier who would on average have to fire off his entire ammunition load three times to hit an enemy regiment once.
 
Back when we had qualifications at the range, the women as a rule would out shoot most of the men. The women would actually listen to the instructor while some of the men had this "Ah, Shucks attitude" that they already knew how to shoot. We were also told that the women didn't have to "unlearn" some of the bad habits that some of the men brought to the firing line,. Like holding your breath or jerking the trigger instead of squeezing. So yes I'd say jerking the trigger has something to do with it.
 
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Back when we had qualifications at the range, the women as a rule would out shoot most of the men. The women would actually listen to the instructor while some of the men had this "Ah, Shucks attitude" that they already knew how to shoot. We were also told that the women didn't have to "unlearn" some of the bad habits that some of the men brought to the firing line,. Like holding your breath or jerking the trigger instead of squeezing. So yes I'd say jerking the trigger has something to do with it.
A "teachable attitude" is mighty important! Bad habits are hard to break indeed... Ask me how I know! :redface:
 
I was a member of the North-South Skirmish Association back in the 80's and had the opportunity to shoot at the nationals held in Winchester Virginia a few times. I can state that on a hot, humid Virginia day with no wind, that when 800-1000 men are shooting at a clay pigeon target at 50 yards, after everyone had shot two or three times, due to the low hanging smoke, you can't see the target.
Perhaps due to the amount of smoke that could be on a battlefield, the military doctrine of the period was for mass fire and not aimed fire, because you can't hit what you can't see. You would fire and reload as fast as possible to put out a wall of lead that the enemy had to traverse through. And then, perhaps, you charged and "gave them the cold steal." Therefore, the U.S. military didn't place much emphasis for aimed shooting, but untold hours were spent in "crowd control" (i.e."drilling," marching and following commands).

In the late 1850's and early '60's due to the advent of the Minnie' ball and it's supposed advantages, the army switched from smooth-bore muskets to rifled muskets in order to implament that advantage. There was a sizable minority of Regular Army officers who were against this change at that time and as late as 1863 were still against the change to rifled muskets. Fuller's book has already been mentioned in this thread, and on page 9 of that book there is a conclusion to a published 13-page argument made against rifled-muskets by a Major G. L. Willard of the U.S. Army. Reading between the lines of his argument, where the average volunteer in battle would get too rattled to remember to raise and lower his sights during battle, I come away with the feeling that the major thought the average volunteer soldier may not have the sufficient mental capability to operate his weapon effectively when under stress. At the distance that most battles were fought, (again, this was written in 1863), it would be far better to arm the soldiers with a smooth-bore firing "buck-and-ball" due to the increase damage that round did in close combat, where aiming wasn't necessary. He concludes that, "The utility of the rifled musket with the elevating sights is exhibited in perfection, when placed in the hands of thoroughly instructed light troops or skirmishers." The major did state thar a regiment should have a company or two that would act as skirmishers and could/would be equipped with a rifled musket, but these troops would receive additional training to take advantage of that arm at distance verses that of the smooth bore. Again, my takeaway from the Major's statement is that there might be a few individuals in a regiment that were smart enough to figure out how to take advantage of the rifled musket, but they had to have additional training. Unfortunately, many of the soldiers never received training in how to properly use their musket, and by this, I mean how to estimate range and aim their weapon. There was no system in place to make them better shots. If they were a superior marksman, they brought that ability with them when they came into the army.
 
A few points:

Minié ball, not "Minnie". Minié was French.

Again, my takeaway from the Major's statement is that there might be a few individuals in a regiment that were smart enough to figure out how to take advantage of the rifled musket, but they had to have additional training. Unfortunately, many of the soldiers never received training in how to properly use their musket, and by this, I mean how to estimate range and aim their weapon. There was no system in place to make them better shots. If they were a superior marksman, they brought that ability with them when they came into the army.
This seems basically correct. The key point is range estimation, and while you actually can train everyone (an essentially random grab-bag of British battalions at Inkerman achieve a hit rate 10 times better than Civil War combat at Inkerman, a battle which includes periods of fog and long range firing; about a third of the British Army were able to shoot out to ranges of 900 yards with effect on the range) you need to actually do this training.


I think there was a general misconception during this period that rifles were more accurate, and that therefore having a rifle made a soldier more accurate. In fact if anything the switchover to the (US-style) rifle-musket was if anything a downgrade for the average soldier, because it was slower to load (very tight windage) and made them no better at shooting.

The British Enfield with British ammunition and a British-trained shooter would achieve increased accuracy with little loss of rate of fire, and is a very different beast.
 
A few points:

Minié ball, not "Minnie". Minié was French.


This seems basically correct. The key point is range estimation, and while you actually can train everyone (an essentially random grab-bag of British battalions at Inkerman achieve a hit rate 10 times better than Civil War combat at Inkerman, a battle which includes periods of fog and long range firing; about a third of the British Army were able to shoot out to ranges of 900 yards with effect on the range) you need to actually do this training.


I think there was a general misconception during this period that rifles were more accurate, and that therefore having a rifle made a soldier more accurate. In fact if anything the switchover to the (US-style) rifle-musket was if anything a downgrade for the average soldier, because it was slower to load (very tight windage) and made them no better at shooting.

The British Enfield with British ammunition and a British-trained shooter would achieve increased accuracy with little loss of rate of fire, and is a very different beast.
Pedantically it is the Delvigne-Minie and Claude was meticulous in giving his colleague equal status.

I actually concur with Major Willard in that, for the troops of the forum war, it would only be feasible to train a small proportion of them to professional standards and these could form a long range skirmish support role in infantry regiments akin to the light companies of an earlier era. Leaving the common soldiery to provide simple smooth bore musket fire at close ranges. It seems to me to be the only practical way to do it under the circumstances of the place and time.

But we stray away from the OP as the thread progresses.
 
What I actually wonder is whether "aim low" was somehing that stuck around as advice after the date when it would have been useful. For flintlocks, "aim low" would have been useful advice, and there's a question as to the extent to which the US had really absorbed the lessons of the percussion lock. If you're, say, Colonel Henry Boyton (KMI, Colonel of the 8th Maine) then has your education included the relative merits of the percussion lock over the flintlock with respect to ignition delay and how much this makes accuracy more achievable?
 
What I actually wonder is whether "aim low" was somehing that stuck around as advice after the date when it would have been useful.

Still seems useful advice. When I had hyper active 20th century troops missing their targets, the aim-low(er) advice helped them qualify. YMMV.
 
I'm sure many a Johnny Reb would have loved to have taken that shot from 100 yards at a dining General Grant. Based on shooting my made in 1847 Harpers Ferry M42 smoothbore I can confidently say the good General would have vacated his picnic spot post haste. With my Whitworth he would have to be dining a bit further out to relax for an after dinner cigar🎯 YMMV
 
A few points:

Minié ball, not "Minnie". Minié was French.


This seems basically correct. The key point is range estimation, and while you actually can train everyone (an essentially random grab-bag of British battalions at Inkerman achieve a hit rate 10 times better than Civil War combat at Inkerman, a battle which includes periods of fog and long range firing; about a third of the British Army were able to shoot out to ranges of 900 yards with effect on the range) you need to actually do this training.


I think there was a general misconception during this period that rifles were more accurate, and that therefore having a rifle made a soldier more accurate. In fact if anything the switchover to the (US-style) rifle-musket was if anything a downgrade for the average soldier, because it was slower to load (very tight windage) and made them no better at shooting.

The British Enfield with British ammunition and a British-trained shooter would achieve increased accuracy with little loss of rate of fire, and is a very different beast.
Thanks for the correction.
In my defense I'll just say I went to public school.

The next time I need to name that particular type of bullet, I should use the term "Burton Bullet" after the Assistant Master Armorer at Harpers Ferry who made some modifications to the Minie' ball and it was Burton's modified bullet that was used by the U.S. Military. But Minie' got the better press so his name stuck for hollow-based bullets.

I agree that the U.S. troops were as trainable as any troops in Europe. But when comparing the American army, largely made up by volunteers and lead by volunteer officers (at least in the lower grades), against any professional European army, to me only shows what could be possible if the American War Department placed some value on better training. One reason the War Department was against arming the troops with repeating weapons was that they felt that in battle, the soldiers would waste ammo by firing too fast. If the War Department felt that way, then I can only assume they must have felt that it was a waste of ammo and money to train the soldiers to be more proficient with their weapons.

I don't think there was no misconception that rifles were more accurate than smoothbores; they were more accurate then, as they still are now. The armies of Europe had proven that a rifled weapon was the future of warfare, and America was trying to catch up by converting their smoothbores to rifles. Whereas Europe had professional standing armies because they tended to fight with their neighbors quite often, America had a huge continent that was still unsettled so there was room to expand, and two oceans to protect us, so we relied on a small professional army and a volunteer militia system that could be called up if and when needed. What America lacked was the training. H. Berdan founded the USSS and they showed what was possible in long range shooting. But Berdan and the military didn't train these men in how to shoot. They already had those skills when the entered the service. The Army provided the tools; they provided the skill. In the right hands, the rifle musket with the Burton bullet was superior to a smooth bore weapon shooting buck and ball in all cases except at close quarters. At distances at 100 yards or less, using a buck and ball load, the smoothbore puts more projectiles downrange per shot. The rifled musket was designed for longer range shooting, but it wasn't used for what it was designed for because the military didn't train the troops for this type of warfare. The rate of fire between the two weapons was essentially the same until the fouling began to build up in the rifle. In the mid 19th century, the British was the premier military organization. Along with better training, their equipment was first class. Perhaps their Pritchard bullet design was better to keep fouling to a minimum, but the English powder set the standard for the world. Black powder fouling, as long as it stays moist, doesn't hinder loading. One reason the bullets carried lube on them is to keep the fouling moist/soft. The Pritchard bullet with its greased paper patching along with the superior powder appeared to be the better combination than what the American army had.

As some may feel that this thread has drifted off topic I'll conclude my post with this antidote. When I first joined the N-SSA, I had the opportunity to fire both a reproduction P53 Enfield and an 1861 Springfield so I could decide which musket I was going to buy. After shooting both, I settled on the Enfield. The Enfield has a straighter stock than the Springfield, meaning the Springfield has more drop to its stock. Upon shooting, I felt the Enfield, with its straighter stock gave less recoil to me than the Springfield, which had more barrel rise upon firing than the Enfield. The amount of recoil was the practically the same for both weapons, but I felt more recoil effect with the Springfield. I'm not a small person, I am 6'5" and at the time weighed 230 pounds. The average height of a U.S. male in the 1860's was probably around 5'8" and weighed maybe 130-140 pounds. The effect of recoil on a smaller person who weighs 100 pounds less than me should be affected by the recoil more as my body weight offers more resistance to the recoil. With the barrel rise upon recoil, a smaller person may be advise to "aim low."
 
As Booner said above. But the British powder had been awful in the mid 18th century and only improved incrementally thereafter and only reached premier quality towards the mid 19th century.

The model army that was followed by other western nations was the French and the US army/ies closely followed the French model in equipment, uniforms etc.

Had the French not suffered from being outranged by Algerian rifles in the 1820s and initiated a search for a rifle that loaded as easily as a musket I do wonder if the smooth bore musket might still have been the normal infantry long arm in the 1860s. The rifle still being restricted to special riflemen for skirmishing loading patched winged conical bullets at best. They can perform nearly as well as the rifle musket but at a much slower rate of fire. Varied examples of that breed are the Russian Kulikov in the Brunswick copy rifle, the South German Johannes Wild system, the Jacob rifle from Indian and Swiss patched conicals. All of these fell out of use when faced with the rifle musket loading speed.
 
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I don't think there was no misconception that rifles were more accurate than smoothbores; they were more accurate then, as they still are now.
I mean that the misconception would be that it just made a man more accurate. Smoothbore shooting in the Napoleonic era was generally limited by the accuracy of the man, not the weapon, so a more accurate weapon would give no improvement - you need to improve the man to get benefit from a rifle.
 
To clarify the above - if a man can't hit a man-sized target at fifty yards more often than not with a flintlock musket (not unusual for someone who's never trained) then giving him a rifle wouldn't help him - he's missing because he's not good enough, not because his weapon isn't good enough.
 
In addition, part of the Hythe musketry method was training people to press the trigger, not pull it. Pulling the trigger leads to a tendency to pull the weapon high - there's less of an impact with a percussion lock than with a flintlock, as there's less time for it to happen, but it can still occur - and this gets into the training issue again.
We called it 'squeezing' the trigger as well. This still persisted with the No4 Rifle and even the SLR (L1A1/FAL). We were also taught the 'hold' on the No4 (hands twist towards the thumb and pull back) which continued, without the twist, with the pistol grip on the SLR and SMG.

The rest was a result of the South African War rethink, Hythe again leading the way. There was the 'breathing', the holding of breath for a moment, waiting for the 'still' before the final press. (The SMLE , No 4 and No5 had a two-stage trigger which made it a bit easier.) There was also the 'follow through' - retaining that grip until after the shot - waiting until the sights settled back.

The 'hold' was often tested by the SAA instructor kicking the rifle. Woe betide if it left your hands!


The sig
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ht picture was often tested by 'dry shooting' (no ammo) prone. Your buddy would lay in front, about a few feet in front of the' shooter', holding a small snap-shooting target, with a hole dead center. They would look through the hole and watch for the alignment of sights and for any movement of sights on release.
 

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