Acoustic shadows

[prroh]

Yes, I've heard they could hear the cannons in Pittsburg but troops less than a mile from Gettysburg heard nothing.

The cannon fire heard in Pittsburgh is often quoted including McPherson's Battle Cry of Freedom.

Frankly, I couldn't believe that sound could travel about 150 miles. So, I got microfische for the month of July, 1863 for the Pittsburgh Gazette. through an inter-library loan and read every issue from July 1st to about the 25th. I found five mentions of cannon fire being heard in towns about 40 miles from Gettysburg. Wrightsville got two mentions, maybe because that was where there was a working telegraph available for correspondents dispatches.

It is simple logic that these towns hearing cannons was news for the largest paper in Pittsburgh, it beggars belief that the Gazette would have ignored reports of the firing being heard locally. There was a huge storm front moving through PA and arrived in Gettysburg on the night of July 4th -5th. Could the distant sound of thunder, in a storm so violent that veterans of the battle would vividly recall 50 years later, be what the residents of Pittsburgh have heard? Battle details were still being published up to week later.

Microfische copies of the NY Times who had a special correspondent at the battle and used the Wrightsville telegraph reported no account of long distance sounds of gunfire.

Kinda like claims that circulated after the battle of Waterloo that gunfire was heard in London. Some residents wrote to newspapers that they heard nothing and the London reports have been largely discredited or mentioned with a big asterisk.

FYI, Longstreet was reported captured July 1st, wounded and killed in two different reports on the same day on July 2nd and killed again on July 3rd. This was from both the Times and Gazette. They stole a lot of copy from other papers in those days as they were transmitted over open telegraph lines which were routinely monitored.

My favorite report was that something big was happening on the Confederate side and appeared to preparations to commence a major bombardment before the start of an expected large-scale infantry assault. The reporter wrote that a dispatch rider was leaving for Wrightsville and he would provide details that night or the next day. This report of something big about to happen actually made the evening edition of the July 3rd Gazette. Kinda as close to real time as you could get in those days.

 

[Lefty]

FYI, Longstreet was reported captured July 1st, wounded and killed in two different reports on the same day on July 2nd and killed again on July 3rd. This was from both the Times and Gazette. They stole a lot of copy from other papers in those days as they were transmitted over open telegraph lines which were routinely monitored.

Colonel Powell of the 5th Texas, captured during the fight for LRT, was taken prisoner and held at the Lutheran Seminary. He was initially mistaken for General Longstreet and seemed to relish to role. A slew of town visitors came to meet the bogus Longstreet and Powell took pleasure in accommodating them at one point stating:

"I was a Texan and credited with dining on negroes and unhappy unless I had killed a man before breakfast."

For more see---The Hospital on Seminary Ridge at the Battle of Gettysburg, Dreese, 2002, pp. 143-44.

 

[diane]

Thanks, that is good to know. I'm glad you check up on things instead of just swallowing it like a little bird with its mouth open! (I do that a little too much!) I've seen that Pittsburgh thing several places including McPherson - and he probably saw it several places, too. How far away is Savannah from Shiloh? Don't think it's 100 miles!

That's funny about Longstreet. They pronounced Forrest dead after every other battle - Tupelo, they announced he'd died of blood poisoning. Sherman gleefully but carefully asked, "Is it true? Is he really dead?" Even crossing his fingers didn't put Forrest in his grave!

But it's sure true you can't trust the papers of the time - sometimes they accidentally got it right and that usually seemed to be top secret battle plans the enemy was happy to see.

I guess what's bothering me about the geography is that end of the country is so low and seems to have lots of underground waterways of various sizes and types. Maybe I'm thinking mostly of Tennessee. I've never heard of any odd sounds out west here but we have so many high mountains.

 

[ole]

It's easy to assume that topographical features can screen sounds. It's harder to realize that atmospheric conditions can also bend sound.

 

[M E Wolf]

I suppose a wee bit off topic but, the August 23rd, 2011 Earthquake that was in the vicinity of Mineral, Virginia that rolled upwards into the Eastcoast into New York and to Canada--did have it's own acoustic noise.

Slowly building up like a big heavy truck noise, sounded like it was on the roof as the house pitched and rolled at the height of the noise, and it slowly went away, the noise faded. That wave of energy causing sound underground would be impossible to alter by human hands. The East coast mountain range is alleged to be much older than the West coast.

I don't know if being inside a house had anything to do with being able to 'hear' the noise or not. Did it act like a 'stethoscope'--I don't know. What I do know, for the size of it--it sure did much more damage then had it happened on the West coast, according to the weather reporters who had lived in California--that is why it was such a big deal, in addition nothing of that size had happened since 1897, when most of the area was still rural and damage if any was slight.

Sound/energy is a very interesting area of study.

Just a few observations and opinions,
M. E. Wolf

 

[Nathanb1]

I suppose a wee bit off topic but, the August 23rd, 2011 Earthquake that was in the vicinity of Mineral, Virginia that rolled upwards into the Eastcoast into New York and to Canada--did have it's own acoustic noise.

Slowly building up like a big heavy truck noise, sounded like it was on the roof as the house pitched and rolled at the height of the noise, and it slowly went away, the noise faded. That wave of energy causing sound underground would be impossible to alter by human hands. The East coast mountain range is alleged to be much older than the West coast.

I don't know if being inside a house had anything to do with being able to 'hear' the noise or not. Did it act like a 'stethoscope'--I don't know. What I do know, for the size of it--it sure did much more damage then had it happened on the West coast, according to the weather reporters who had lived in California--that is why it was such a big deal, in addition nothing of that size had happened since 1897, when most of the area was still rural and damage if any was slight.

Sound/energy is a very interesting area of study.

Just a few observations and opinions,
M. E. Wolf

You described it well. Our puny little earthquake a few years ago in West Texas caused the Civic Center ceiling to roll and pop as though someone had opened a door in high wind on the other side of the building. We had no idea what had happened until a gentleman who was sitting on a stool came running in; of course, he thought something had blown up. Other folks saw pans of boiling food skittering across their ceramic cooktops.

But that noise....it was truly amazing.

 

[prroh]

Does anybody know of battle where the winner mentioned this shadow? Troops entering a battle mentioning that they didn't hear much over the noise of their own tramping feet and banging equipment is not true acoustic shadow. It is if troops a mile or so further along heard these battle sounds very distinctly.

In domed buildings, e.g. US Capitol building, St Paul's Cathedral, there is an acoustical effect that even a whisper in one particular spot could be heard distinctly about 50 feet away as if the person was standing next to you.

 

[diane]

There's certain acoustic effects along the river and canyons here - we used to use it for communications. You can call up or down river and people will hear you for miles. The trails were so narrow people would sing walking along them so people far down the path could get out of the way. Funeral processions were announced that way and the trails were always clear for miles ahead no matter how many twists and turns were in the trail. There were three big sacred rocks in the middle of the river that talked. No kidding. You could put your ear on them and they sounded like voices. The miners destroyed them some long years ago.

Does Shiloh count as a victory with acoustic shadows? Grant said he heard it in Savannah.

 

[prroh]

Does Shiloh count as a victory with acoustic shadows? Grant said he heard it in Savannah.

Sound does carry, with the right atmospheric conditions can carry some distance. Witness folks in Wrightsville PA hearing cannon-fire from Gettysburg, 45 miles away. Sounds carrying long distances seem to be connected with humid air, which helps explain the river trail effect , combined with a funneling effect from the canyon walls

An acoustic shadow is Not hearing sounds, even though the sounds people further away hear these sounds distinctly. As if a shadow had blocked out the sound.

 

[Samuel.Sohm]

Seen this happen personally in combat. In fact I may have a video of something like it. Let me poke around my Afghanistan stuff.....

 

[wilber6150]

There's certain acoustic effects along the river and canyons here - we used to use it for communications. You can call up or down river and people will hear you for miles. The trails were so narrow people would sing walking along them so people far down the path could get out of the way. Funeral processions were announced that way and the trails were always clear for miles ahead no matter how many twists and turns were in the trail. There were three big sacred rocks in the middle of the river that talked. No kidding. You could put your ear on them and they sounded like voices. The miners destroyed them some long years ago.

Does Shiloh count as a victory with acoustic shadows? Grant said he heard it in Savannah.

How did Grant hear the battle of Shiloh at Savanannah? I thought he was busy at Shiloh?

 

[diane]

Lol! He was there - didn't phone it in! But he was downriver at Cherry Mansion, Savannah - his headquarters - because his horse had fallen on him and mashed his leg pretty well. He was getting an early breakfast as he didn't want to be gone long from the field as the situation was dicey - then he heard the firing from Sherman's rally at Pittsburg Landing. He hobbled onto a dispatch boat and got to Shiloh by early mid-morning - think around 8am.

 

[wilber6150]

My bad I knew he was away from the battle at the beginning, but didn't realize it was actually Savannah where he first heard the firing lol

 

[diane]

That's from Grant's memoirs. (Such a good read!) Once again he got accused of being down there tying one on but if he had a snoot-full it was medicinal! The thing is he heard it at his headquarters, but people actually in it heard nothing.

 

[ole]

Savannah is approximately 9 miles of river travel to Pittsburg Landing.

 

[wilber6150]

Savannah is approximately 9 miles of river travel to Pittsburg Landing.

Never realized it was that close and I travelled thru Savanna twice.... DARN IT ......