Acoustic shadows

[footie]

First came upon this term during Gettysburg histories, but recently found it in Kenneth Noe's book "Perryville." Also heard it called "sound refraction." I am having trouble in believing that this occurred, especially at Perryville-think Buell and others used it as an excuse. Appreciate your opinions.

 

[OpnCoronet]

Although the phenominon, seems to have beenfairly common during the ACW, but was it reported from other wars in Europe, before or after the CW? It seems to be most voluminously reported in the CW compared to other wars in history.

 

[prroh]

Although the phenominon, seems to have beenfairly common during the ACW, but was it reported from other wars in Europe, before or after the CW? It seems to be most voluminously reported in the CW compared to other wars in history.

And almost always used as an excuse by battle losers or someone who screwed up during a battle.

 

[Greg Taylor]

First came upon this term during Gettysburg histories, but recently found it in Kenneth Noe's book "Perryville." Also heard it called "sound refraction." I am having trouble in believing that this occurred, especially at Perryville-think Buell and others used it as an excuse. Appreciate your opinions.

Battles where the Acoustic Shadow phenomenon occurred in the Civil War are Gettysburg, Seven Pines, Iuka, Fort Donelson, Five Forks, Perryville, and Chancellorsville.

For more information on acoustic shadows you might check this out. http://www.nellaware.com/blog/acoustic-shadow.html It sounds feasible to me.

 

[brass napoleon]

It's definitely feasible. Sound travels as a wave, and any waveform can have shadows.

 

[M E Wolf]

I can attest to the fact that sound carries when the conditions are 'perfect.'

Quantico U.S. Marine Base has live artillery fire occasionally, which most residence get a robo-notification call and or receive notice. In addition they post these times and schedules on their web address.

A couple of years ago, it sounded like artillery was going off a few streets from me. The Police Department up here, Falls Church, Arlington and Alexandria--and yes MPDC (Washington, D.C.) were getting 911 calls. So much so, that the news broadcasters started immediately going on the air as to say what all the boom sounds were all about, where it came from. A retired Artillery Lt. Colonel visiting our neighbor, was smiling and said it was music to his ears as we were on our lawns enjoying the sounds. Lt. Colonel was saying which was which, load and he was enjoying sharing with us as well as told us that it was acoustic shadow. As I said, it sounded like it was rather close. Militarily, for the Civil War, I am located very close to Mason Hill, Rose Hill Farm, Padgett's Tavern on the east side of the town of Annandale, Virginia. (Reference McDowell Map of Northern Virginia)

My father, a boy at the time--related to me that what he heard was like artillery in 1939, while at 9th and S. Quincy Street, in Arlington, Virginia which is on top of the hill. It was said that the U.S. Army had held artillery practice and drills for the horse drawn pieces in Manassas on the old battleground. His father, mother, paternal grandfather and paternal grandmother along with him heard what sounded like nearby artillery. A Arlington County Police officer friend and resident of that neighborhood also heard it. According to a historian, Fort Myers had marched his horse drawn artillery unit to the old Manassas battlefield to practice (which was still real rural in 1939). The only known photograph of the Fort Myer artillery and cavalry horses that exercised in the area on a regular basis (to keep fit and these were not ceremonial horses), has been donated to Fort Myers' historical branch and because it has the development date stamp on the back, even more valuable and fixing who would have been in charge of the exercises.

Since I wasn't around then, I only have my father's word for it.

Just my personal experiences and opinions.

M. E. Wolf

 

[diane]

Sometimes artillery-like sounds can be caused by shallow earthquakes. My uncle lived in the Sacramento Valley not far from Mt Lassen - the combination of the volcano and the spongy ground of the Delta made some very weird noises. One time they thought a train was coming by until they remembered there were no railroad tracks anywhere near!

Wasn't it Warren got lost during the battle of the Wilderness and like to wandered there for 40 years - never did make the battle yet it was raging all around him. He said he never heard a thing!

 

[prroh]

Wasn't it Warren got lost during the battle of the Wilderness and like to wandered there for 40 years - never did make the battle yet it was raging all around him. He said he never heard a thing!

Think you mean Burnside. Warren was in the thick of things against Ewell.

 

[diane]

Ah! Thanks! I wonder if the make-up of the ground back east was the cause of that. Never heard of it anywhere else in the country but then there weren't any battles that big either. A couple howitzers against some Indians was non-existent compared. When I was in SC we heard a huge boom while visiting the coast - nobody knew what it was. Someone said it happened like that in New York, too, and other places along the Atlantic seaboard.

 

[SouthernRebel772]

I have read severall accounts that seem to suggest it does exist. Didn't Grant experience it at Ft. Donelson or Shiloh? And Pickett at Five Forks? Or was the Clambake just too lively for him to hear the thousands of rifles going off.

 

[prroh]

Ah! Thanks! I wonder if the make-up of the ground back east was the cause of that. Never heard of it anywhere else in the country but then there weren't any battles that big either. A couple howitzers against some Indians was non-existent compared. When I was in SC we heard a huge boom while visiting the coast - nobody knew what it was. Someone said it happened like that in New York, too, and other places along the Atlantic seaboard.

You may have heard a sonic boom from a fighter jet. Were you near the coast?

 

[diane]

No, it wasn't a sonic boom. Just a low, deep BOOM! We were just above Charleston somewhere but all I really remember about it was that boom and a really bad smell from the beach!

 

[ole]

Interesting.

Sound, like light, can be refracted. Ever put a straight stick in water? It seems to bend. Of course, it doesn't bend, but something happened there.

Thanks to Greg Taylor, the term is somewhat clarified. Sound can be bent, but it takes a combination of factors to bend it. Grant, in Savannah, TN, could clearly hear the cannon nine miles away at Shiloh. Buell, couldn't hear the cannon, a shorter distance away, at Perryville.

 

[prroh]

No, it wasn't a sonic boom. Just a low, deep BOOM! We were just above Charleston somewhere but all I really remember about it was that boom and a really bad smell from the beach!

Maybe artillery training at Parris Island.

 

[wilber6150]

There are reports of troops onlybeing a few miles from Gettysburg, and not hearing a single sound of battle, and it wasn't until they saw the wounded streaming by did they know they were close to a battle

 

[diane]

Yes, I've heard they could hear the cannons in Pittsburg but troops less than a mile from Gettysburg heard nothing. (Which is amazing, considering Porter's cannonade!) I do wonder about the question asked earlier - did any other battle, say in Europe, have acoustic shadow? I've never heard of it outside our CW and wondered if it was something peculiar about the makeup of the eastern seaboard.

 

[brass napoleon]

Yes, I've heard they could hear the cannons in Pittsburg but troops less than a mile from Gettysburg heard nothing. (Which is amazing, considering Porter's cannonade!) I do wonder about the question asked earlier - did any other battle, say in Europe, have acoustic shadow? I've never heard of it outside our CW and wondered if it was something peculiar about the makeup of the eastern seaboard.

I can't imagine what would be so unique about our eastern seaboard. Gettysburg is extremely rocky terrain, and the sound waves bouncing off the rocks could possibly have something to do with it.

 

[deleson1]

There are reports of troops onlybeing a few miles from Gettysburg, and not hearing a single sound of battle, and it wasn't until they saw the wounded streaming by did they know they were close to a battle

I did a reenactment in the woods near the Wilderness Battlefield. We were at one of the flanks and were surprised by the enemy and surrendered very early in the battle. We were held "prisoner" the rest of the battle and I swear even thou there were thousands of reenactors fighting we never heard a sound.

 

[diane]

Grant did hear the fighting at Shiloh down at Savannah, when he got on his boat to come back. That was another fight where people a hundred miles away heard everything and people a half mile away heard nothing.

 

[Rob9641]

South Mountain is west of my home; Smithsburg MD is on the other side of a pass thru the mountain, and that is where the closest train track runs. The train runs about the same time every day, but some days I can hear it clearly, other days not at all. I blame the wind direction, but I really don't know. It's just a good test case, because it's the same sound, the same distance, the same objects in the way, every day.