A Toast ... between enemies

Joined
Jan 24, 2017
Everyone now and again, discussions were held between opponents under a flag of truce during the Civil War.

They often ended on a less serious note, as Brooks D. Simpson notes in his biography on Ulysses S. Grant.

After what Grant termed the 'skirmish' at Belmont, it was time for another meeting aboard a steamer on the Mississippi to discuss the exchange of prisoners.

"It had become somewhat of a tradition to conclude each conference with a drink. Before Belmont, Polk had proposed a toast to George Washington; only after his Union counterpart raised his glass did he add, "the first rebel." Grant now sought to even the score. He raised his glass, declaring "Equal rights to all." Polk smiled, lifted his glass, then sputtered as Grant added "white and black". Later stories would circulate that the drinking went beyond toasts, although Grant was not present at these bashes."

Touche, as they say! Though Polk definitely got one in the bag there :smoke:
 
That is a good story ... but it's quite assuredly only a story.

The original "George Washington" toast was between Polk and Buford, not Polk and Grant, as the cited source for this anecdote wrongly had it. There would, therefore, be no reason for Grant to "even the score."

And it seems very highly unlikely that Grant—who was still a slaveholder given his wife's slaves and who had stated almost two years later: "I never was an Abolitionest, [n]ot[sic] even what could be called anti slavery"—would believe at this point that whites and blacks should have equal rights.
 
Thank you for your post @Joseph A. Rose . The cited sources in Brooks D. Simpson's biography were as follows: Catton, Grant Moves South, 83-84; Simpson, Let us Have Peace, 20; Conger, The Rise of U.S.Grant, 103-104; Baltimore American, February 7, 1887.

I'm not sure if you have a cited source for the toast being between Polk and Buford, but it would be helpful to know if there is one.

Grant was not a slave owner himself until a year before the outbreak of the CW, but had married into a slaveholding family. He expressed several thoughts in relation to slavery which you will see included in the link below which also relates to manumission of his own slave.

 
he cited sources in Brooks D. Simpson's biography were as follows: Catton, Grant Moves South, 83-84; Simpson, Let us Have Peace, 20; Conger, The Rise of U.S.Grant, 103-104; Baltimore American, February 7, 1887.
Here are a couple of earlier sources related to the incident. One denying the incident occurred as described, dated August 1, 1868, and another reporting the incident, as described, dated October 29, 1868
1578005039948.png

The Weekly Caucasian. (Lexington, MO), August 01, 1868, page 2.
1578006007673.png

The Manitowoc Tribune. (Manitowoc, WI), October 29, 1868, page 2.
 
Here are a couple of earlier sources related to the incident. One denying the incident occurred as described, dated August 1, 1868, and another reporting the incident, as described, dated October 29, 1868
View attachment 340865
The Weekly Caucasian. (Lexington, MO), August 01, 1868, page 2.
View attachment 340878
The Manitowoc Tribune. (Manitowoc, WI), October 29, 1868, page 2.
Thank you so much, Laura, for sourcing these two conflicting reports. Unfortunately I don't have access to newspaper reports currently, but I'm wondering if the one cited by Simpson can be accessed. If it can, it probably would look much like the report in The Manitowoc Tribune, and I think these reports were often repeated perhaps without a thorough checking of original sources. It seems Catton may have used the same potential newspaper source, and I'm surprised if these authors could dig up one they could not dig up the other. So, which is to be believed? I do believe Polk said what was reported as it is the same in both accounts. I'm not sure that early in the war that Grant would have spoken so convincingly of 'equal rights'. So, it does make for a good story. And now the question remains whether the conversation was actually had with Buford ...

I love these CW investigations ... and I'm so glad that @Joseph A. Rose commented questioning this story as it's always better to know the truth of the matter.
 
I'm wondering if the one cited by Simpson can be accessed.
Happy to help. I did look for that volume, but, unfortunately, the Baltimore American is not one of the newspapers available at the Library of Congress' Chronicling America site. Maybe someone who has access to newspapers. com can check and see if it is available there?

EDIT TO ADD: It is available at Google news, but the copy is so poor it is illegible. https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=9fSugHr6AN8C&dat=18870207&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
 
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As promised ...

#9 in this thread might explain a few things and even give us a date ... but no source unless @Saruman knows of one :biggrin:

 
Here are a couple of earlier sources related to the incident. One denying the incident occurred as described, dated August 1, 1868, and another reporting the incident, as described, dated October 29, 1868
View attachment 340865
The Weekly Caucasian. (Lexington, MO), August 01, 1868, page 2.
View attachment 340878
The Manitowoc Tribune. (Manitowoc, WI), October 29, 1868, page 2.

Thank you for those two news articles. I hadn't seen either before. Judging from their dates, they were probably written by those who wanted to influence the upcoming presidential election, either for or against Grant.

There is no doubt that the initial "George Washington" toast was with Polk and Buford). Polk said so in an article in Battles and Leaders 1:357 ("The jest chanced to be at Colonel Buford's expense. The matters of the flag of truce had all been discussed, and the party had adjourned to partake of a simple luncheon which the Confederates had provided. As the company rose from the table the gallant colonel, raising his glass, proposed: "George Washington, the Father of his Country." General Polk, with a merry twinkle in his eye, quickly added : "And the first Rebel! " The Federal officers, caught in their own trap, gracefully acknowledged it by drinking the amended toast.") It probably appeared first in the Century Magazine. Grant was not on this trip.

Even more pertinent, a newspaper article (Chicago Tribune 10/29/1861) had correspondence concerning the flag-of-truce trip in question. Buford wrote to McClernand that same day (10/23/1861) that, "My party were hospitally[sic] entertained. I ventured to propose the sentiment 'Washington and his principles' which were repeated with hearty approbation."

Joe
 
Happy to help. I did look for that volume, but, unfortunately, the Baltimore American is not one of the newspapers available at the Library of Congress' Chronicling America site. Maybe someone who has access to newspapers. com can check and see if it is available there?

EDIT TO ADD: It is available at Google news, but the copy is so poor it is illegible. https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=9fSugHr6AN8C&dat=18870207&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
Thanks so much for adding that Laura. It is quite illegible in parts, but some of it can be read and I will take a close look asap.
 
Judging from their dates, they were probably written by those who wanted to influence the upcoming presidential election, either for or against Grant.
That is possible, I'm sure, and as you suggest could be used to influence either way.

And touche to General Polk who it appears was not one upped on the day!
 
Thank you for those two news articles. I hadn't seen either before. Judging from their dates, they were probably written by those who wanted to influence the upcoming presidential election, either for or against Grant.....

Even more pertinent, a newspaper article (Chicago Tribune 10/29/1861) had correspondence concerning the flag-of-truce trip in question. Buford wrote to McClernand that same day (10/23/1861) that, "My party were hospitally[sic] entertained. I ventured to propose the sentiment 'Washington and his principles' which were repeated with hearty approbation."

Joe
Hi Joe. You're welcome. I'm happy to help. Here's another very early reference to the exchange between Buford and Polk. This one from a Confederate soldier; apparently written by "Frank" of the 11th Louisiana Infantry. Unfortunately, "Frank" doesn't reveal his last name, but he does mention "Col S F Marks" and "Lt Col Barrow." Samuel F Marks was Col of the 11th LA and Robert H Barrow was Lt Col.
1578027143020.png

Sugar Planter. (West Baton Rouge,LA), November 09, 1861, page 2. Link
 
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Hi Joe. You're welcome. I'm happy to help. Here's another very early reference to the exchange between Buford and Polk. This one from a Confederate soldier; apparently written by "Frank" of the 11th Louisiana Infantry. Unfortunately, "Frank" doesn't reveal his last name, but he does mention "Col S F Marks" and "Lt Col Barrow." Samuel F Marks was Col of the 11th LA and Robert H Barrow was Lt Col.
View attachment 340911
Sugar Planter. (West Baton Rouge,LA), November 09, 1861, page 2. Link

Laura (is it?),

Thanks very much. Frank's article confirms Polk and Buford (except that it seems only 3 Confederates were exchanged for 16 Federals).

I've attached Page One of Carroll's article here. My two-page .pdf didn't attach correctly as it was too large. I'll attach Page Two in my next post. It doesn't directly concern, however, the subject at hand.

BaltimoreAmerican 87-02-07 Grant's drinking - Carroll_Page_1.jpg

I have a copy of William C. Carroll's article in the Baltimore American of February 7, 1887, and I'll try to attach it to a post in the near future.

Page Two

BaltimoreAmerican 87-02-07 Grant's drinking - Carroll_Page_2.jpg
 
Laura (is it?),
Indeed. Pleased to meet you Joe.
I've attached Page One of Carroll's article here.
Thanks so much. The Google news version was virtually impossible to decipher. So was this Maj Wm C Carroll present when Polk and Buford met or is he talking about another instance aboard another flag of truce boat where Grant was in attendance? Carroll doesn't mention Buford at all. "Frank" says the parties "came ashore and repaired to headquarters." Carroll seems to be saying the dining and toasting took place aboard the Union flag of truce boat? Looks like there are two possibilities. 1. Two incidents occurred with similar details near the same time/place or 2. In his post-war account, Carroll has mis-remembered details - like who was present?
 
Laura (is it?),

Thanks very much. Frank's article confirms Polk and Buford (except that it seems only 3 Confederates were exchanged for 16 Federals).

I've attached Page One of Carroll's article here. My two-page .pdf didn't attach correctly as it was too large. I'll attach Page Two in my next post. It doesn't directly concern, however, the subject at hand.

View attachment 340913


Page Two

View attachment 340914
I don't see the 'word for word' description of an exchange between Polk and Grant in this article which I quoted in the OP, though I believe this meeting took place. So I think the two occasions have become mixed up, and there is nothing to prove at this point Grant said anything of the kind. The focus of the whole thing seems to be largely focused on Grant's drinking habits and a defense of that in this article. Thanks so much for following up on that.
 
I don't see the 'word for word' description of an exchange between Polk and Grant in this article which I quoted in the OP, though I believe this meeting took place. So I think the two occasions have become mixed up, and there is nothing to prove at this point Grant said anything of the kind. The focus of the whole thing seems to be largely focused on Grant's drinking habits and a defense of that in this article. Thanks so much for following up on that.

The quotes probably came from Simpson's earlier work, Let us Have Peace, Pg. 20. I think that in this version, Polk's "counterpart" was explicitly identified as Grant. So, Simpson confused the flag-of-truce excursions, as Grant wasn't on the one featuring Buford's toast to George Washington.

Grant was accused of getting drunk with the enemy on one or more of these excursions, and there is evidence of this. Carroll's post-war article detailing a particular excursion, for instance, only has Hillyer being left behind on the Confederate vessel after the boats separated. His contemporary news article stated, however, that "we had not gone far before we discovered that the rebels had carried off our General and another officer." Another source had Grant making a hole in Cheatham's coat about as big as a silver half dollar while trying to secure one of the Confederate's buttons.
 
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