A Sight Question

[Mikebiker]

I saw this forum seems to be fairly active so I joined up. I have a fair collection of Civil War firearms along with many others. I have recently acquired this Palmetto Model 1842 Musket dated 1852. The gun seems to 100 percent correct except for the addition of a rear sight. The sight is very similar to a model 1855 long range sight but as you can see in the pictures there are differences. It is held on with the standard screw found on the 1855 sight and the Models 1861 and 1863. The big differences are the rounded back end sliding sight bar. The sight looks to be period correct and is extremely well made. Do any of you have any idea what it may be? Thanks for any answers.

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy

 

[johan_steele]

You have a rifled M1842 made in SC. Some consider it a rather collectible item.

 

[ConfederateCanuck]

Paging @Lanyard Puller

 

[Mikebiker]

This is not the sight that was installed at Palmetto Armory on the rifled guns. They used a very plain fixed sight. This one does not match anything I can find.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

Your Palmetto {iron mounted "spiral tree"} is 100% correct, as far as the photos' you posted. PM me if you need more info.

Your Palmetto should be rifled {3 broad L&G}. It is probably a Happoldt alteration on an original 1852 pattern Palmetto. He also altered Palmetto rifles and some 1841 model "mississippi" rifles for the state at the start of the War. William Glaze also rifled and sighted 3720 of the brass mounted muskets in 1861.

To replace the original 1852 block rear sights, when rifling the guns, Wm. Glaze and John Happoldt {the contractors in 1861} apparently used different type rear, long range sights, but there are not enough of these guns in collections to make aany definitive conclusion as to who did the alteration. They used whatever they had to complete their contract. Confederate made and altered guns, with the exception of a few major armories, were not even close to the standards of US models. Most of the paperwork in Columbia SC was rather charred during the War.

The Glaze alteration, done in 1861, consisted of general repairs and clean up plus rifling the barrel {3 grooves}, cutting a dovetail and adding a rear sight, but rather than the simple block "V" sight he added the long range sight which is still on yours. As these muskets were taken from storage, his alterations could be on both the "bushy" and the "spiral' locked guns.

All Palmetto products; muskets, rifles, bayonets, cutlasses, etc are very collectable and rarely found with any "condition" remaining

Here's some photos of the "other one".

A brass mounted "bushy" tree:

The rear sight (the sight stamping guy hade some problems with the "2"} Love CS stuff !!!

With the new rifling you'd "need" that 700 yard + ladder...

The brass mounted guns mostly had top bayonet lugs, but top or bottom were somewhat varied depending on the bayonets on hand at the time of alteration.

 

[lelliott19]

@Mikebiker Welcome to CivilWarTalk and thanks for sharing the photos of your rifle!

@Lanyard Puller you called your example a "bushy tree" so Im assuming there are two or more different markings that were commonly used? Could you elaborate on the use of the markings? Thanks in advance.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

The muskets had 2 different types of Palmetto trees stamped on the lock plates.
The early production long guns were stamped with the "bushy tree", more of a Palmetto Palm. As the production went along the dies would wear out or break.
The second [later} Palmetto tree type was the "spiral" tree, more of a coconut palm.
The date, etc remained unchanged.

The "Spiral"

The "bushy"

 

[LSBusch]

FAIRLY active?

 

[Mikebiker]

I am adding a few more pictures to show you the rest of the gun. I have only briefly looked at the bore. From what I could see it may have the very shallow 3 grove rifling. I do need to run a brush through it and take a closer look. The sight pictured by Lanyard Puller is very close to mine. As you can see mine has a bottom bayonet lug and a standard 1842 bayonet fits perfectly. This gun walked into my local gunshop last week along with a very nice French Model 1777 Flintlock Pistol which is also all correct. It has a 1779 date and is almost certainly a Revolutionary War gun. As they say get both so I did.

 

[captaindrew]

Welcome to the forum and nice piece, thanks for sharing