A challenge debate thread part 2

[1950lemans]

I think a lot of these possibles are good, but please, not those darn black Confederates again! Next thing you know, we'll be lighting fires on Little Round Top again!

Yeah I definitely know what you mean! LOL. But if you run a search on threads, in General Discussions for example, this topic pops up high with most replies. OMG!

 

[rhettbutler1865]

I think it's a great idea. As long as we stay away from individuals' religious and political beliefs. Those get irritating. I nominate brass napoleon and Barrycdog to start us off on the "right foot."

 

[ole]

Is someone gonna say this is a debate and you don't get to say nothing?

 

[brass napoleon]

Is someone gonna say this is a debate and you don't get to say nothing?

No, ole, this isn't a modern Presidential debate. This is serious business!

 

[ole]

No, ole, this isn't a modern Presidential debate. This is serious business!

Was thinking of the challenge debate, Brass. I don't know if one is started yet.

As for presidential debates, I'll wait about six months before I wade in. Too bad that modern poliitics are not allowed.

 

[rhettbutler1865]

No, ole, this isn't a modern Presidential debate. This is serious business!

Right, brass---whatever he said (I didn't see it).

 

[alan polk]

It seems that most agree the first endeavor ought to exclude any debates involving the politics or philosophy of the war, at least for starters, but to limit it to a military strategy debate.
Are we at a point now where we should create a poll with some of the topics suggested on these two pages and put it to a vote? Take the top couple and then seek volunteers?
If so, I reassert my topic of "Which was more important: Vicksburg or Gettysburg?" A topic like this would encompass great interest as it covers much of east and west theaters of operations and a lot of battles and strategy, etc.
Anyway, just some thoughts.

 

[peteanddelmar]

@jgoodguy was right. Keep it simple.

Vicksburg or Gettysburg? Is a great topic.
Brass and Barry are great suggestions.
Or keep this topic and let volunteers come to be the debaters.

Great idea. Is it distilled down enough now?
Start it man!

 

[alan polk]

@jgoodguy was right. Keep it simple.

Vicksburg or Gettysburg? Is a great topic.
Brass and Barry are great suggestions.
Or keep this topic and let volunteers come to be the debaters.

Great idea. Is it distilled down enough now?
Start it man!

I agree. Let's get it started!!!

 

[rhettbutler1865]

"hi-ho, Silver, away!!!"

 

[brass napoleon]

@jgoodguy was right. Keep it simple.

Vicksburg or Gettysburg? Is a great topic.
Brass and Barry are great suggestions.
Or keep this topic and let volunteers come to be the debaters.

Great idea. Is it distilled down enough now?
Start it man!

If I were to debate this topic, I'd have to take the Vicksburg side. But I've got a couple big projects I'm wrapping up right now so it would be a week or two before I could get to it. If anyone else wants to take it in the meantime, please do!

 

[jgoodguy]

If I were to debate this topic, I'd have to take the Vicksburg side. But I've got a couple big projects I'm wrapping up right now so it would be a week or two before I could get to it. If anyone else wants to take it in the meantime, please do!

Need a debatable proposition first.

 

[brass napoleon]

Need a debatable proposition first.

@alan polk already suggested it:

I think that's a good idea. I would also really enjoy an even broader topic like "Which was more important: Gettysburg or Vicksburg?"

I'm comfortable with it as long as I could take Vicksburg.

 

[jgoodguy]

@alan polk already suggested it:

I'm comfortable with it as long as I could take Vicksburg.

I hate to be anal, but what constitutes 'important'? Military, psychological, political or all the above? As seen contemporary or from the modern view point.

 

[alan polk]

I hate to be anal, but what constitutes 'important'? Military, psychological, political or all the above? As seen contemporary or from the modern view point.

I thought I covered that in an above post. Allow me to try and re-state:

"In the American Civil War, which battle played a more strategically important role to bring an end to the military conflict between the North and South"?

I would hope that within this context we will not have to debate whether slavery or black Confederates or secession or tariffs played a role. However, the importance of these battles might have affected/effected military/political decisions and psychological determinations of civilians, politicians and commanders.

So your focus on "important" is well taken and should be considered in depth. But that is why I nominated Brass and James B. White to begin with. These guys have, in my opinion, a scholar's instinct for discussing topics. I don't mean to limit it to Brass and James, these are just guys I happen to recognize as trying to seek an honest mean in there expressions on this site. There are others too. But I look forward to this debate whether it is Brass or White or whether it is Vicksburg/ Gettysburg. It gives this site a different depth.

 

[jgoodguy]

I thought I covered that in an above post. Allow me to try and re-state:

"In the American Civil War, which battle played a more strategically important role to bring an end to the military conflict between the North and South"?

I would hope that within this context we will not have to debate whether slavery or black Confederates or secession or tariffs played a role. However, the importance of these battles might have affected/effected military/political decisions and psychological determinations of civilians, politicians and commanders.

So your focus on "important" is well taken and should be considered in depth. But that is why I nominated Brass and James B. White to begin with. These guys have, in my opinion, a scholar's instinct for discussing topics. I don't mean to limit it to Brass and James, these are just guys I happen to recognize as trying to seek an honest mean in there expressions on this site. There are others too. But I look forward to this debate whether it is Brass or White or whether it is Vicksburg/ Gettysburg. It gives this site a different depth.

You cannot wonder all over the map with this debate format. You have to nail down what the debate is about from the start.

 

[peteanddelmar]

You cannot wonder all over the map with this debate format. You have to nail down what the debate is about from the start.

I think @jgoodguy 's suggested format is good.
I think @alan polk 's debatable question is good.
You appear to have one side's proponent in @brass napoleon, he's good.
So all you need is a willing debater for the other side!

You try it this way for one debate and tweak from there if necessary.

"In the American Civil War, which battle played a more strategically important role to bring an end to the military conflict between the North and South"?

 

[jgoodguy]

I think @jgoodguy 's suggested format is good.
I think @alan polk 's debatable question is good.
You appear to have one side's proponent in @brass napoleon, he's good.
So all you need is a willing debater for the other side!

You try it this way for one debate and tweak from there if necessary.

"In the American Civil War, which battle played a more strategically important role to bring an end to the military conflict between the North and South"?

I suggest the following form "The battle of Gettysburg was of more strategical importance to the Union victory in the American Civil War than the battle of Vickburg. " Or flip the battles in the statement.

 

[peteanddelmar]

I suggest the following form "The battle of Gettysburg was of more strategical importance to the Union victory in the American Civil War than the battle of Vickburg. " Or flip the battles in the statement.

I have never done debate, but would guess you would just about have to make it a statement rather than a question.
Ok, he had a good subject and you have refined it into a debatable form.
Now you got to find one willing and able Gettysburg debater!
From my reading I would probably flip the battles because Gettysburg always seems to get the nod. IDK, maybe that would make it easier to attack. Need a debater to decide that.

 

[brass napoleon]

I suggest the following form "The battle of Gettysburg was of more strategical importance to the Union victory in the American Civil War than the battle of Vickburg. " Or flip the battles in the statement.

That works, although if you're really going to be technical about it, Vicksburg was a siege, not a battle. I would be willing (in a week or two) to take the position: "The Union victory at Vicksburg was of more strategic importance to the outcome of the war than the victory at Gettysburg was". But like I said, I'll be an eager audience if anyone else wants to take up the topic before then.