Trivia 7-18-17 True or False

[Trivia Master]

True or False: Jefferson Davis and Abraham Lincoln first met when both served in the Black Hawk War of 1832.

credit: @chellers

 

[WJC]

True or False: Jefferson Davis and Abraham Lincoln first met when both served in the Black Hawk War of 1832.

credit: @chellers

False

 

[Reb]

False. A supposed meeting has been speculated but it is highly improbable.
cdn.loc.gov/service/gdc/lhbum/7689c/7689c_0146_0165.pdf

 

[truthckr]

false
there are conflicting accounts, but apparently not verified that they ever met.
Mrs. Davis claims that the paths of the two men crossed during the campaign in Illinois. It is entirely possible that the two officers met, and they may have messed together. The dramatic tradition, however, that Jefferson Davis administered to Abraham Lincoln the oath of allegiance to the Constitution of the United States seems to be ill‑founded.

 

[nextcity]

False. I do not believe there is any evidence that they ever met in person.

 

[kholland]

I'm going with true. Jefferson Davis' wife wrote a book after the war and according to this website

Mrs. Davis claims that the paths of the two men crossed during the campaign in Illinois. It is entirely possible that the two officers met, and they may have messed together.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer...impsest/4/10/Lieutenant_Jefferson_Davis*.html

 

[William G Hendry]

False: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Story_of_Abraham_Lincoln/The_Black_Hawk_War

Here, one day, Abraham Lincoln saw a young lieutenant of the United States army, whose name was Jefferson Davis. It is not likely that the fine young officer noticed the rough-clad ranger; but they were to know more of each other at a future time.

Mrs. Davis claims that the paths of the two men crossed during the campaign in Illinois. It is entirely possible that the two officers met, and they may have messed together. The dramatic tradition, however, that Jefferson Davis administered to Abraham Lincoln the oath of allegiance to the Constitution of the United States seems to be ill‑founded.b

 

[General Casey]

This one is tricky. It could be true but more likely false. During the Black Hawk War, Jefferson Davis was home in Mississippi and only arrived back at his post, Fort Crawford towards the end of the conflict. His duty was to escort Black Hawk to prison. There is, however, the story, told by Varina Davis in her biography of her husband, that Jefferson Davis mustered in Abraham Lincoln.

As Varina Davis writes,

"The Rev. Dr. Harsha, of Omaha, said: "General Winfield Scott, when a young man, was stationed at Fort Snelling — at that day perhaps the remotest military outpost in the country. When the Black Hawk War was begun some Illinois militia companies proffered their services. Two lieutenants were sent by Scott to Dixon, Ill., to muster the new soldiers. One of these lieutenants was a very fascinating young man, of easy manners and affable disposition; the other was equally pleasant but extremely modest. On the morning when the muster was to take place, a tall, gawky, slab-sided, homely young man, dressed in a suit of blue jeans, presented himself to the lieutenants as the captain of the recruits, and was duly sworn in.

"The homely young man was Abraham Lincoln. The bashful lieutenant was he who after fired the first gun from Fort Sumter, Major Anderson. The other lieutenant, who administered the oath, was, in after years, the President of the Confederate States, Jefferson Davis."

Davis personally never makes any reference to it, nor does Lincoln, but as someone else commented, "You don't walk around all day jotting down the names of everyone you met that day."

https://cdn.loc.gov/service/gdc/lhbum/7689c/7689c_0146_0165.pdf
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer.../_Topics/history/_Texts/GANUSA/8*.html#note14

 

[ErnieMac]

Does maybe count? Varina Davis in her 1890 biography of her husband titled Jefferson Davis, Ex-president of the Confederate States of America : A Memoir mentioned an account by a Rev. Harsha of Omaha that Davis had mustered Lincoln into service during the Black Hawk War. Varina also stated the Jefferson Davis remembered swearing in volunteers, but could not substantiate that Lincoln was one of them. Historians have since decided the account was improbable. Most recent biographies do not mention this meeting. Answer - false.

 

[Copperhead-mi]

This one is a little tricky to answer. According to Varina Davis, in her biography of her husband, she claimed that Jefferson Davis at Lincoln's militia unit's muster, administered the oath of allegiance to Abraham Lincoln. So according to her, the answer is True. Yet according to others, Davis and a couple other officers could not have been dispatched from Ft. Snelling to Lincoln's militia unit's location because they were elsewhere and it was Zachary Taylor who administered the oath. Other online sources also label the meeting between Lincoln and Davis as false.
So, my answer is False.

Source listed at end:
"In the memoir of Jefferson Davis by his wife,2 it is stated that when this volunteer force
was called out by Governor Reynolds, Gen. Winfield Scott was in command at Fort
Shelling, and dispatched thence to the seat of war two lieutenants to muster in the Illinois
volunteers. One of these lieutenants was said to be a 'very fascinating young man, of easy
manners and affable disposition;' while 'the other was equally pleasant and extremely
modest;' it is further stated that 'a tall, homely young man, dressed in a suit of blue jeans,'
presented himself to the lieutenants as the captain of a company of volunteers, and was
with the others duly sworn in; and that the oath of allegiance was administered to the
'young man in blue jeans' by the 'fascinating' young lieutenant, first named.

This 'fascinating' young officer was Jefferson Davis. who was nearly a year the senior of
Lincoln; his 'extremely modest' colleague was Robert Anderson, who at the beginning of
the War of Secession was in command at Fort Sumter; and the tall, homely, young captain
in 'blue jeans,' was Abraham Lincoln. There may be a grain of truth in this romantic
statement, but it is doubtful. At the time Lincoln was elected captain, and mustered into
service, Scott was not at Fort Shelling; he was in the East, and did not reach Chicago until
July 8.3 Lieut. Jefferson Davis did not, at that time, come from Fort Snelling; he had for
a considerable time been with Col. Zachary Taylor at Fort Crawford (Prairie du Chien).
Neither did Anderson come from Fort Shelling, but from Jefferson Barracks, at St. Louis. It
is possible that Lieutenant Davis administered the oath of allegiance, but I am not 124 aware of any record of such an event. Indeed it is stated upon what is believed to be good authority, that Lincoln and his company were mustered into service by Colonel Taylor himself.1"

Source - Library of Congress -Abraham Lincoln in the Black Hawk War, pp. 6-7 (footnotes at website)

 

[Jimklag]

True or False: Jefferson Davis and Abraham Lincoln first met when both served in the Black Hawk War of 1832.

credit: @chellers

False

 

[Study the Past]

Tralse....got both answers covered!

Edit - I'm sorry, but this is a copout.

Hoosier

 

[Mike Serpa]

50% chance - no

 

[TinCan]

True

 

[DBF]

According to this article - there is a remote possibility - as before Lincoln was mustered out of service he was in Southern Wisconsin, and Davis perhaps was in Southern Wisconsin at and about the same time. Although there is no documentation of a meeting.
http://deadpresidents.tumblr.com/post/31664411629/did-lincoln-and-jefferson-davis-ever-meet-each

This article states that Davis missed the Black Hawk War and only served in the end of escort Chief Black Hawk to Washington.
https://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Davis_Jefferson_1808-1889#start_entry

In the book "Jefferson Davis, Ex-President of the Confederate States of America - A Memoir by his wife, Varina" - in Chapter 11, on the Black Hawk War, there is a story that states that a bystander recollects that "he often heard Mr. Lincoln say that the first time he ever taken the oath of allegiance to the United States it was administered by Jefferson Davis." Mr. Davis recalls giving the oath to some volunteers but could not substantiate the story.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/nebrowser?id=lincoln,abraham&query=Perseus:text:2001.05.0037

Although, this article pretty much debunks Mrs. Davis's story.
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer...impsest/4/10/Lieutenant_Jefferson_Davis*.html

And the town of Coltonville, IL that claimed a meeting place between Taylor, Davis and Lincoln is debunked in this article.
http://www.dekalbcountylife.com/5-14-08.htm

Best I can tell, Lincoln was mustered out of service on July 10, 1832 after 3 months of service. According to Wikipedia, Davis was in Mississippi during the Black Hawk war and did not arrive until August so I'm not sure they were even together anywhere during that time.

So from these sources - did the meet officially - probably not - did they see each other or their paths cross - possibly. However since there doesn't seem to be much reporting of what would be remembered as a memorable meeting - I would have to say this is False. Even if I am wrong, I actually enjoyed doing this research.

 

[Stony]

False
source-http://deadpresidents.tumblr.com/post/31664411629/did-lincoln-and-jefferson-davis-ever-meet-each
source-https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?page_id=374305
Crazyguy gets his facts from the book "Along the Black Hawk Trail by William F Stark.

 

[Wallyfish]

False.

According to multiple sources, there is no evidence that Abe and Davis met in 1832 during the Black Hawk War.

Several sources said they could of met but there is no evidence of an actual meeting.

From my source link (several other sites say the same).
Lincoln did not fight in any battles in Wisconsin during the Black Hawk War and there is no evidence that he ever crossed paths with Jefferson Davis, who also served in the war.

https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Article/CS1882

 

[MaryDee]

It appears that one source, Varina Davis in her Jefferson Davis, Ex‑President of the Confederate States of America, A Memoir, stated that the two men met during the Black Hawk war. This seems to be the only source for this statement, and I can find no other confirmation. In fact, other sources I found online doubt that they ever met, because Davis was on leave for nearly all of the war. I have italicized the pertinent quotes below.

My answer: true, per Varina Davis; barely possible but doubtful per the other sources I consulted. I realize this is a very equivocal answer and will leave the resolution up to Hoosier.

Per http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer...impsest/4/10/Lieutenant_Jefferson_Davis*.html
"Mrs. Davis claims that the paths of the two men crossed during the campaign in Illinois. It is entirely possible that the two officers met, and they may have messed together. The dramatic tradition, however, that Jefferson Davis administered to Abraham Lincoln the oath of allegiance to the Constitution of the United States seems to be ill‑founded."

Per https://cdn.loc.gov/service/gdc/lhbum/7689c/7689c_0146_0165.pdf "In the memoir of Jefferson Davis by his wife,2 it is stated that when this volunteer force was called out by Governor Reynolds, Gen. Winfield Scott was in command at Fort Shelling, and dispatched thence to the seat of war two lieutenants to muster in the Illinois volunteers. One of these lieutenants was said to be a "very fascinating young man, of easy manners and affable disposition;" while "the other was equally pleasant and extremely modest;" it is further stated that "a tall, homely young man, dressed in a suit of blue jeans," presented himself to the lieutenants as the captain of a company of volunteers, and was
with the others duly sworn in; and that the oath of allegiance was administered to the "young man in blue jeans" by the "fascinating" young lieutenant, first named.
This "fascinating" young officer was Jefferson Davis. who was nearly a year the senior of Lincoln; his "extremely modest" colleague was Robert Anderson, who at the beginning of the War of Secession was in command at Fort Sumter; and the tall, homely, young captain in "blue jeans," was Abraham Lincoln. There may be a grain of truth in this romantic statement, but it is doubtful. [emphasis mine] At the time Lincoln was elected captain, and mustered into service, Scott was not at Fort Shelling; he was in the East, and did not reach Chicago until July 8.3 Lieut. Jefferson Davis did not, at that time, come from Fort Snelling; he had for
a considerable time been with Col. Zachary Taylor at Fort Crawford (Prairie du Chien). Neither did Anderson come from Fort Shelling, but from Jefferson Barracks, at St. Louis. It is possible that Lieutenant Davis administered the oath of allegiance, but I am not
124 aware of any record of such an event. Indeed it is stated upon what is believed to be good authority, that Lincoln and his company were mustered into service by Colonel Taylor himself.1"

Per http://deadpresidents.tumblr.com/post/31664411629/did-lincoln-and-jefferson-davis-ever-meet-each
"One remote possibility – very remote yet still a possibility – is that Davis and Lincoln could have crossed paths during the Black Hawk War in 1832. During that brief war between Americans troops and Sac and Fox Indians in present-day Illinois and Wisconsin, Lincoln joined a group of militia volunteers and was elected Captain, although they saw no real action. Davis was in Mississippi when hostilities broke out and didn't join the effort until the very end. Lincoln's service ended in July, but immediately before he was mustered out of service, he spent time with a regiment attempted to arrest Chief Black Hawk in Southern Wisconsin. Southern Wisconsin is where Davis joined the fight, but it may have been after Lincoln's duty ended and he had returned to New Salem, Illinois. While Lincoln and his regiment had no luck finding Chief Black Hawk, Davis' did arrest the Chief and another future President (and Davis' future father-in-law), Zachary Taylor, put Davis in charge of transporting Black Hawk to prison. Since Black Hawk wasn't captured until the end of August, I seriously doubt that Davis and Lincoln crossed paths, but like I said, there's a remote possibility that they may have."

Per this last source, it seems more likely that the two could have met in Washington, DC.
". . . the future Confederate President was a Senator during the same two years that Lincoln was a member of the House. It's not inconceivable that they might have met during that time."

 

[MRB1863]

False

 

[MRB1863]

Mrs. Davis, in her writings Jefferson Davis, Ex‑President of the Confederate States of America, A Memoir, claims that the paths of the two men crossed during the campaign in Illinois. It is entirely possible that the two officers met, and they may have messed together. The dramatic tradition, however, that Jefferson Davis administered to Abraham Lincoln the oath of allegiance to the Constitution of the United States seems to be ill‑founded. Since there is no mention of a meeting, my answer is still FALSE.