Most Underrated General

[Elennsar]

Hill did an adequet job as a Corps commander in the circumstances he had to deal with, but the atmosphere within the AoT at the time was such that no one could perform to the fullest extent of their potential. I will add that when Hill was relieved of duty by Bragg and Davis all his division commander expressed their continued confidence in him and his ability, and said they regretted that he was being removed.

But how often do we see someone's subordinate commanders saying "And if we never see you again it will be too soon."?

Bragg got it. I'm sure a few other absolutely despised commanders got it. But I don't know if say Burnside's subordinates were by and large saying to him that they hoped he would be court martialed or something.

I'm not saying its entirely meaningless, but I think it's not a good sign on if he deserved a corps or if it was just a maybe.

 

[Old Bay]

Hill and Jackson were related. Hill married the younger sister of Jackson's second wife.
Might be why they got along.

I think that helped. But, if I recall correctly (which is always dangerous), Hill and Jackson shared similar qualities when it came to their faiths.

Nathan G. Evans, brigade commander and real hero of First Bull Run and winner at Ball's Bluff. Was sidelined because of drunkeness and disobedience. Underrated and unappreciated by his contemporaries it is an interesting thought about him leading a division in late 1861 and 1862; and making a difference with his work and influence in the ANV could have changed some things.

Well stated. He was a fighter. I don't think he ever would've been long for the ANV, though, as he wouldn't really play nice. He had the qualities, IMO, of a good division commander. Probably no more than that.

 

[Elennsar]

My recollections of reading on Harvey Hill seem similar to yours, Old Bay, so at least it makes me in good company if I'm guessing wrong.

 

[Old Bay]

My recollections of reading on Harvey Hill seem similar to yours, Old Bay, so at least it makes me in good company if I'm guessing wrong.

Uh oh...

 

[Elennsar]

Uh oh...

Are you saying you're not good company?

I thought quoting the Simpsons was supposed to be a good sign . . .

 

[Old Bay]

Are you saying you're not good company?

Depends on who you ask, I guess.

I thought quoting the Simpsons was supposed to be a good sign . . .

I mean, I think it's a good sign.

 

[Elennsar]

Depends on who you ask, I guess.

I'm going to be optimistic until proven a fool then.

So, anyone with fresher knowledge of Hill's religious beliefs?

 

[JeffBrooks]

Has anyone mentioned George Thomas yet? While I've never met anyone who asserts that he was a bad general, I certainly don't think he gets the credit that he deserves. Traditional historiography maintains that the Dynamic Duo of Grant and Sherman (with a little help from their trusty sidekick Sheridan) won the war. But Thomas deserves to be right up there with Grant and Sherman in his contribution to the Union victory and, frankly, was a better general than either of them.

 

[Nathanb1]

Has anyone mentioned Hill's rather severe back problems?

 

[diane]

I, too, have a soft spot for Old Rawhide but there's a reason that was his nickname! Maybe it's because he was born exactly the same place my dad's family was - York County, South Carolina. I suspect a good deal of why Hill is generally (military record a little aside) ignored or downplayed is because he was a staunch believer in Southern independence, slavery, hated Yankees even before the war - used to make up mathematical equations for his students like how many Pequots did the Yankees kill or enslave, or how many wooden nutmegs did the Yankees mix with real ones - was such a strong supporter of Calhoun he'd drop you as a friend if you said a tiny disparaging word about the man. As for religion, he was even more the Old Testament warrior-prophet than was Stonewall! I think Hal Bridges "Lee's Maverick General Daniel Harvey Hill" is still considered the best biography on Hill.

 

[Lincoln65]

I think Cleburne is sometimes under appreciated. But I'd have to say AJ Smith and his "gorilla guerrillas"

 

[Elennsar]

Has anyone mentioned Hill's rather severe back problems?

If they haven't, they should have. That would make anyone grouchy.

 

[Nathanb1]

If they hadn't, they should have. That would make anyone grouchy.

Exactly. And he did have them, in the days before spinal fusion and all the neat tricks available today.

 

[Elennsar]

Exactly. And he did have them, in the days before spinal fusion and all the neat tricks available today.

I am trying to imagine riding with a bad back, and just thinking about it hurts. Even with a good horse and as a good horseman on good ground, that sounds like it would jar and upset things that are already out of whack, or at least feel like it.

 

[JeffBrooks]

I think Cleburne is sometimes under appreciated.

You think? He's considered by many to have been the best division commander on either side.

 

[Billy Yank]

The average person on the street has never heard of: Winfield Scott Hancock or Geo. Gordon Meade. Both made significant contributions toward the outcome of the ACW and are underrated and underappreciated.

 

[Elennsar]

I'm not sure that the average person hasn't heard of someone is a fair measure of how well they're rated, although that someone COULD forget about Meade and Hancock is a little alarming. It's not that much trouble to put a paragraph about Gettysburg in that mentions them as having been awesome.

 

[Billy Yank]

I'm not sure that the average person hasn't heard of someone is a fair measure of how well they're rated, although that someone COULD forget about Meade and Hancock is a little alarming. It's not that much trouble to put a paragraph about Gettysburg in that mentions them as having been awesome.

My compliments, Col. Elennsar. Take your own personal survey, as I have done, and prepare to be not a little alarmed.

 

[JeffBrooks]

The average person on the street has never heard of: Winfield Scott Hancock or Geo. Gordon Meade. Both made significant contributions toward the outcome of the ACW and are underrated and underappreciated.

Frankly, I doubt that the average person on the street has heard of Lee or Grant. And "Lincoln" was a movie recently, right?

 

[frontrank2]

One man that comes to mind is Ambrose Burnside. Many people hold him in the lowest regard for his poor performances at Antietam, Fredericksburg, and the Crater. However, the Crater was not really his fault (The Joint Committee on the Conduct of the War blamed the failure on Meade, not Burnside). Also, he did have success early in the war in North Carolina and then against Longstreet in the Knoxville campaign. I don't know if you can call Burnside a good general, but I think it's unfair to call him one of the worst generals (as so many have). For that reason, I think he is underrated.

I think he was a good brigade and division commander, it seems to me he was out of his league any higher.