Ebenezer creek

[cash]

No,It was Wheelers men who killed,captured and returned to their plantations. Davis orderd the slaves to stay behind at gun point, he cause them to drown and be captured,if Davis would have acted a little deffrently,those slaves would have survived to be free men and women!

Davis did no killing. It was Wheeler's men who did the killing.

 

[PartywithArty]

You should look up the definition of "refugee" in the dictionary.

plural ref·u·gees

[count] : someone who has been forced to leave a country because of war or for religious or political reasons

 

[cash]

plural ref·u·gees

[count] : someone who has been forced to leave a country because of war or for religious or political reasons

Hmm. Doesn't say anything about being stranded when a bridge gets cut away.

 

[PartywithArty]

Davis did no killing. It was Wheeler's men who did the killing.

Davis stranded them knowing what was to happen... He done so at gun point, the slaves had no way out,

 

[PartywithArty]

Hmm. Doesn't say anything about being stranded when a bridge gets cut away.

eactly,so quit calling them refugees....they were not forced to leave their plantations.

 

[dvrmte]

We went through this topic a while back, at that time I figured Wheeler was just as wrong as Davis if not more so. I've seen evidence that fortifications had been erected by Union soldiers and that pickets were out. IIRC, Wheeler mentioned an attack on a camp where about 3,000 negroes were captured and nothing about driving them into the river.

If I get time I'll look further into this as it seems Wheeler's side hasn't been told and we're depending on the testimony of one man.

 

[PartywithArty]

We went through this topic a while back, at that time I figured Wheeler was just as wrong as Davis if not more so. I've seen evidence that fortifications had been erected by Union soldiers and that pickets were out. IIRC, Wheeler mentioned an attack on a camp where about 3,000 negroes were captured and nothing about driving them into the river.

If I get time I'll look further into this as it seems Wheeler's side hasn't been told and we're depending on the testimony of one man.

here you go sir. read page 301 http://books.google.com/books?id=SC...v=onepage&q=wheeler on Ebenezer creek&f=false

 

[Tin cup]

LT.J.H. McDaniel:

I have no idea where you come up with some of your theories on the Ebenezer Creek incident...you have shown no proof of what you have said, leaving ME to wonder what you are (or are not) studying/ reading, or who you are listening to.

Sherman was pressed for time, couldn't handle all the over load of feeding those people...what part of all that can't folk understand?

Kevin Dally

 

[johan_steele]

My god there is a complete & purposeful lack of understanding about what happened at Ebeneezer Greek from one side. Davis ordered the pontoons pulled prior to the refugees crossing & before he knew Wheelers men were that close. Refugees were neither invited or turned back by the soldiers. US soldiers made an effort to shield the refugees when Wheelers men charged into them but were firing from the other side of the creek and while they did inflict some casualties they were minimal.

Wheeler not only failed to stop the March to the Sea he failed to slow it. All he could do was pick off stragglers, kill bummers and worry the flanks. Estimates range from 3-5ooo refugees were stranded on the wrong side of the creek when Wheelers men made their assault. Those refugees were women, children, the old & the unfirm. Calling them militia or even a threat is... nothing shy of fabrication w/ the ulterior motive of excusing those who murdered them. How many were killed? We will never know for certain but hundreds drowned and herded into the swollen creek to drown, hundreds more were rode down, cut down or shot. If it were US soldiers who had done this we would see those excusing it shouting to the four winds about how evil the US soldier is... which they do already.

Wheeler wasn't in the business of hauling slaves back to their masters, I suspect those who didn't go quickly & eagerly where he told them to simply "disappeared."

What I know after studying this is that anyone named Jeff Davis was a true bastard. I have little respect for Wheeler, for a variety of reasons and this is but one more nail in the coffin. Sherman covered for one of his subordinates, to his everlasting shame. Those US soldiers who tried to cover the refugees and rescued many deserve a note of thanks for their decency.

I often say that the men who did the fighting and dieing were by and large good men; not all that different from us today. Then I see the rabid attempts to smear any and all US soldiers today and in the ACW I get so disgusted.

Sherman was a mad man, Lincoln was evil & Gay the US soldier was the spawn of Satan... good christ what does that say about the people spouting such nonsense?

 

[PartywithArty]

My god there is a complete & purposeful lack of understanding about what happened at Ebeneezer Greek from one side. Davis ordered the pontoons pulled prior to the refugees crossing & before he knew Wheelers men were that close. Refugees were neither invited or turned back by the soldiers. US soldiers made an effort to shield the refugees when Wheelers men charged into them but were firing from the other side of the creek and while they did inflict some casualties they were minimal.

Wheeler not only failed to stop the March to the Sea he failed to slow it. All he could do was pick off stragglers, kill bummers and worry the flanks. Estimates range from 3-5ooo refugees were stranded on the wrong side of the creek when Wheelers men made their assault. Those refugees were women, children, the old & the unfirm. Calling them militia or even a threat is... nothing shy of fabrication w/ the ulterior motive of excusing those who murdered them. How many were killed? We will never know for certain but hundreds drowned and herded into the swollen creek to drown, hundreds more were rode down, cut down or shot. If it were US soldiers who had done this we would see those excusing it shouting to the four winds about how evil the US soldier is... which they do already.

Wheeler wasn't in the business of hauling slaves back to their masters, I suspect those who didn't go quickly & eagerly where he told them to simply "disappeared."

What I know after studying this is that anyone named Jeff Davis was a true bastard. I have little respect for Wheeler, for a variety of reasons and this is but one more nail in the coffin. Sherman covered for one of his subordinates, to his everlasting shame. Those US soldiers who tried to cover the refugees and rescued many deserve a note of thanks for their decency.

I often say that the men who did the fighting and dieing were by and large good men; not all that different from us today. Then I see the rabid attempts to smear any and all US soldiers today and in the ACW I get so disgusted.

Sherman was a mad man, Lincoln was evil & Gay the US soldier was the spawn of Satan... good christ what does that say about the people spouting such nonsense?

No one here has said Lincoln was evil,or gay...No one has compaird any us soldier with satin. But as far as putting Sherman on a pedestal? I certainly will not...

 

[Battalion]

Sherman to Halleck 12 January 1865:

"...that ****-and-bull story of my turning back negroes that Wheeler might kill them is all humbug. I turned nobody back. Jeff. C. Davis did at Ebenezer Creek forbid certain plantation slaves- old men, women, and children-to follow his column; but they would come along and he took up his pontoon bridge, not because he wanted to leave them, but because he wanted his bridge.
He and Slocum both tell me they don't believe Wheeler killed one of them...."

http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/pageviewer?frames=1&cite=http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ANU4519-0099&coll=moa&view=50&root=/moa/waro/waro0099/&tif=00038.TIF&pagenum=36

*

Sherman's Memoirs-

"...On the occasion referred to, the bridge was taken up from Ebenezer Creek while some of the camp-followers remained asleep on the far ther side, and these were picked up by Wheeler's cavalry. Some of them, in their fright, were drowned in trying to swim over, and others may have been cruelly killed by Wheeler's men, but this was a mere supposition...."

http://www.sonshi.com/sherman22.html

*

Wheeler's report, Savannah Campaign, 24 December 1864-

"...On the night December 8 we shelled the camp of the Fourteenth Corps with good effect, throwing the corps into confusion and causing it to leave camp at midnight, abandoning clothing, arms. &c. By breaking up the camp during the extreme darkness a great many negroes were left in our hands, whom we sent back to their owners. We also captured three wagons and teams, and caused the enemy to burn several more wagons. The whole number of negroes captured from the enemy during the movement was nearly 2,000...."

[url]http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/pageviewer?frames=1&cite=http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ANU4519-0092&coll=moa&view=50&root=/moa/waro/waro0092/&tif=00430.TIF&pagenum=410[/URL]

 

[diane]

So...there was no incident at Ebenezer Creek? All the people got either picked up by Wheeler and safely returned to their owners or drowned themselves by panic - but nobody killed any of them? Well, Sherman and Wheeler agree on that!

 

[Battalion]

So...there was no incident at Ebenezer Creek? All the people got either picked up by Wheeler and safely returned to their owners or drowned themselves by panic - but nobody killed any of them? Well, Sherman and Wheeler agree on that!

If not, let's see some credible evidence to the contrary. Johan_Steele rants don't count.

 

[Battalion]

Screaming "massacre!" was the way to get the focus of the failures of Federal generals.

 

[Copperhead-mi]

Oh for crying out loud...

R

This is not directed towards anyone in particular (definitely not you, rp) but this ridiculous argument reminds me of the quote "I'm not sayin you're stupid; you just have bad luck when you're thinking."

 

[wilber6150]

the ex-slaves joined in the march,making themselfs volounters. When Wheelers men got ahold of them,they were " being soldiers" as Sherman said. Davis got rid of the slaves,Wheeler just finished the job... Wheelers men fought as soldiers, as they were supposed to. Shermans men used the slaves as bullet sponges to save their own a**es

Wait, Wheelers men killed unarmed men women and children according to the account and you give them a pass cause they were acting like soldeirs? Theres something wrong with that logic...

 

[wilber6150]

its not soldierly..And neither is bringing over 600 ex-slaves along for a march then stranding them for certain death..Not soldierly at all,sir..

Bringing them along? They followed the army, Sherman and his officers were telling people not to but to stay where they were until the war was over...Yet they came anyway...

 

[wilber6150]

Sherman and Davis left the slaves behind for certain death... Forrest "massecured" fort pillow... My point is Sherman is not the angel some around here think he is,he had his faults just like everyone else. HE was wrong fpr the ebinezer creen incedent. Wheeler could have handled it differently,but if you were in Iraq and towns people were teaming up with talaban,then the talaban deserts the towns people,would you command your american troops to over look the towns people?No,you would have them terminated at the same extent in wich you would the talaban. Same rules apply here.Wheeler killed the slaves because they were basicly a "union militia". The equivilant of confederate guerillas. They posed a threat,they were disposed of. over 600 human beeings in wich Davis and Sherman were supposedly fighting to protect,but yet left them for certain death... yes Wheeler was wrong,but Sherman and Davis were just as wrong..

Wow you really are defending the killing of unarmed people...And Sherman for all your attempts to blame him wasn't there, and didn't order the incident to happen....

 

[cash]

Davis stranded them knowing what was to happen... He done so at gun point, the slaves had no way out,

So Davis was wrong to think the refugees would be safe with the chivalrous soldiers of the confederacy?

 

[dvrmte]

here you go sir. read page 301 http://books.google.com/books?id=SCsePSD3YeEC&pg=PA301&lpg=PA301&dq=wheeler on Ebenezer creek&source=bl&ots=xajtPZo_9J&sig=Z3xtIhi8-rRLXYfVnwPu81m2hkQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=s1D_T-uDMpGW8gSq39XLBA&ved=0CFUQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=wheeler on Ebenezer creek&f=false

Thanks, that's the exact source I had read a few months back. I previously pictured in my mind a scene of Wheeler riding down and attacking the back of a column of men moving over the bridge and that the Negroes were at the rear. According to the above source the camp was behind fortified lines and was attacked first by a battery of artillery on the night of the 8th. Then panic set in as they attempted to get across before the Negroes. It doesn't specifically state that there was a cavalry attack but the act of capturing the dispatch proves that Union troops were there in a camp and were surprised, and that they left in a panic.

So if Wheeler did charge as indicated in other accounts, he charged into an enemy camp behind fortified lines and the Negroes got in the way, exactly what Sherman was worried about and it happened during the night.

The source also says there were about 2,000 Negroes instead of 670.

A few things from the OR's:

From J. C. Davis' report, he doesn't mention the incident:
http://ehistory.osu.edu/osu/sources/recordView.cfm?Content=092/0165

December 7, the column moved in the same order of march; Baird and Kilpatrick, unencumbered by the trains, covered the rear. Morgan's division and the pontoon train reached Ebenezer Creek late in the evening, and went immediately to work cutting away the fallen timber which obstructed the roadway through the immense swamp which skirts the creek on both sides at this point. The pontoniers, under Colonel Buell, set to work at once, notwithstanding an exceedingly hard day's march, to reconstruct the bridge, and by noon the next day the column commenced crossing this formidable defile. Notwithstanding the immense amount of labor expended upon the road and bridge to make them passable, much was still required to keep them in condition, and it was not until daylight the 9th that the rear of the column had completed the crossing.

During the 8th the enemy's cavalry made several attempts to drive in our rear pickets, but did not succeed. The loss on our side during these attacks was but slight, although at times the skirmishing was quite animated.

On the morning of the 9th, marched from camp at Ebenezer Church to Cuyler's plantation, where General Morgan, who was in the advance, found the enemy occupying a strongly erected field-work, disposed to dispute his advance. General Morgan immediately placed a couple of field pieces in position and opened fire upon the work. His infantry was soon deployed for an attack, but the near approach of night and the impossibility of assaulting the position through the impassable swamp in our front caused me to defer the attack until morning, when it was discovered the enemy had abandoned his position.

You can throw J. C. Davis' report out because he doesn't even mention any attacks while crossing the creek and that the rear of his column crossed on the morning of the 9th or anything about Negroes being massacred.


Some assorted snips from the OR's:

http://ehistory.osu.edu/osu/sources/recordView.cfm?Content=092/0173

December 7, our march greatly impeded by fallen timbers and bridges burned across creeks. December 8, more especially at Ebenezer Creek, which the enemy had destroyed, blockading the road across the swamps. While a new bridge was being built the enemy attacked the skirmishers of General Baird's division. My regiment was immediately thrown into position, in the rear line of brigade, and threw up logs, &c. At 11 p. m. my regiment crossed Ebenezer Creek, and halted near the church. December 9, moved from Ebenezer, crossing Ebenezer Creek. Roads blockaded, bridges, slough ways, &c., torn up or burned along our entire march to-day; halted sixteen miles from Savannah.

http://ehistory.osu.edu/osu/sources/recordView.cfm?Content=092/0175

December 1 to 3, marched to Lumpkin's Station, on the Savannah and Augusta Railroad. December 4, part of the day the brigade was engaged destroying railroad; was rear guard to the wagon train, and skirmished with a small body of cavalry who were hovering in the rear, but with no result. December 5 to 8, marched to Ebenezer Swamp, where we formed line of battle to protect the train while crossing the swamp, and at midnight marched two miles and camped on east side of the swamp. December 9, resumed the march, but coming upon a small party of the enemy posted in a small fort protected with artillery, went in line for the night.

December 5 to 7, marched a distance of forty-six miles; during this march the cavalry, covering the rear, were engaged with the enemy. December 8, marched a distance of three miles, and formed line of battle to cover the train until it crossed Ebenezer Swamp; remained until midnight, when we marched to east side of the swamp, a distance of two miles. December 9, marched a distance of seven miles, when we found the enemy posted with artillery and infantry.

There's more in the OR's if anyone wants to spend the time.