Proposed Invasion of Charleston harbor by the North

[George Purvis]

Oh, so they should send ships with no guns even though the Confederates had fired twice on ships flying the American flag..What a joke... So how is your invsion fleet looking now...By the way have a guess how many armed Confederates annd guns this fleet was going to be facing?[/quo

Oh, so they should send ships with no guns even though the Confederates had fired twice on ships flying the American flag..What a joke... So how is your invsion fleet looking now...By the way have a guess how many armed Confederates annd guns this fleet was going to be facing?

carrying re-enforcements
GP

 

[wilber6150]

He did not. His orders did not state move to Sumter. Find that statemnet in his orders.

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

The smallness of your force will not permit you, perhaps, to occupy more than one of the three forts, but an attack on or attempt to take possession of any one of them will be regarded as an act of hostility, and you may then put your command into either of them which you may deem most proper to increase its power of resistance. You are also authorized to take similar steps whenever you have tangible evidence of a design to proceed to a hostile act.

Is that clear enough for you..

 

[wilber6150]

Why don't you look them up yourself. I posted them once.. Do you suffer from memory loss??

I told you I was going to play silly games with you. You can go in cirvcles all you want.

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

I did and broke it down paragraph by paragraph to make it easy for you to understand, do you need the post number too so you dont get lost trying to find it...

 

[wilber6150]

I dont want you to get confused so its on post 573...

 

[George Purvis]

Why dont you read the thread I have already did it like three times but heres another copy..

FORT MOULTRIE, S. C., December 11, 1860.​

Memorandum of verbal instructions to Major Anderson,​

First Artillery, commanding at Fort Moultrie, S. C.​

​

You are aware of the great anxiety of the Secretary of War that a collision of the troops with the people of this State shall be avoided, and of his studied determination to pursue a course with reference to the military force and forts in this harbor which shall guard against such a collision. He has therefore carefully abstained from increasing the force at this point, or taking any measures which might add to the present excited state of the public mind, or which would throw any doubt on the confidence he feels that South Carolina will not attempt, by violence, to obtain possession of the public works or interfere with their occupancy. But as the counsel and acts of rash and impulsive persons may possibly disappoint those expectations of the Government, he deems it proper that you should be prepared with instructions to meet so unhappy a contingency. He has therefore directed me verbally to give you such instructions.*​

You are carefully to avoid every act which would needlessly tend to provoke aggression; and for that treason you are not, without evident and imminent necessity, to take up any position which could be construed into the assumption of a hostile attitude. But you are to hold possession of the forts in this harbor, and if attacked you are to defend yourself to the last extremity. The smallness of your force will not permit you, perhaps, to occupy more than one of the three forts, but an attack on or attempt to take possession of any one of them will be regarded as an act of hostility, and you may then put your command into either of them which you may deem most proper to increase its power of resistance. You are also authorized to take similar steps whenever you have tangible evidence of a design to proceed to a hostile act.​

D. C. BUELL,​

Note the date and then compare it with the orders I posted

GP
carrying re-enforcements

 

[wilber6150]

Yes the fleet was carrying rienforcements as Lincoln told the Confederates it was, which would only be landed if the supply mission was resisted..

 

[wilber6150]

Note the date and then compare it with the orders I posted

GP
carrying re-enforcements

Read the orders you posted and 573 they do not change these orders...In fact they support it...

 

[George Purvis]

I did and broke it down paragraph by paragraph to make it easy for you to understand, do you need the post number too so you dont get lost trying to find it...

So what are trying to be cute? It amazes that in every discussion a Yankee think he has to run in circles, dismiss & ignore facts posted by another, and. make snide remarks about anther poster in one way or the other. Maybe I should start the same tactics by asking are you to thick to understand written orders Do I need to break them down word for word? Am I typing to fast for you??? If this is the game you want to play, I can do it too, in fact I can get down right dirty.

Oh YES By the war somehere you asked me if I was blaming Lincoln for tyhe war. The answer is --

YES!!!! Is that plain enough for you?????

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

 

[George Purvis]

Yes the fleet was carrying rienforcements as Lincoln told the Confederates it was, which would only be landed if the supply mission was resisted..

And they were supposed to believe that?? I am coming to your house with 10 of my buddies armed to the teeth, I am bringing you food. No need to worry you your household or your wife won't be harmed. Yeah right.

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

 

[wilber6150]

How about the orders to the naval commander with Fox..

NAVY DEPARTMENT,​

Washington, April 5, 1861.​

Captain SAMUEL MERCER,​

Commanding U. S. S. Powhatan, New York:​

SIR: The United States steamers Powhatan, Pocahontas, and Harriet Lane will compose a naval force, under your command, to be sent to the vicinity of Charleston, S. C., for the purpose of aiding in carrying out the objects of an expedition of which the War Department has charge.​

The primary object of the expedition is to provision Fort Sumter, for which purpose the War Department will furnish the necessary transports. Should the authorities at Charleston permit the fort to be supplied, no further particular service will be required of the force under your command, and after being satisfied that supplies have been received at the fort, the Powhatan, Pocahontas, and Harriet Lane will return to New York, and the Pawnee to Washington.​

Should the authorities at Charleston, however, refuse to permit or attempt to prevent the vessel or vessels having supplies on board from entering the harbor, or from peaceably proceeding to Fort Sumter, you will protect the transports or boats of the expedition in the object of their mission-disposing of your force in such manner as to open the way for their ingress and afford, so far as practicable, security to the men and boats, and repelling by force, if necessary, all obstructions towards provisioning the fort and re-enforcing it; for in case of resistance to the peaceable primary object of the expedition a re-enforcement of the garrison will also be attempted. ​

These purposes will be under the supervision of the War Department, which has charge of the expedition. The expedition has been intrusted to Captain G. V. Fox, with whom you will put yourself in communication, and co-operate with him to accomplish and carry into effect its object.​

You will leave New York with the Powhatan in time to be off Charleston Bar, ten miles distant from and due east of the light-house, on the morning of the 11th instant, there to await the arrival of the transport or transports with troops and stores. The Pawnee and Pocahontas will be ordered to join you there at the time mentioned, and also the Harriet Lane, which latter vessel has been placed under the control of this Department for this service. On the termination of the expedition, whether it be peaceable or otherwise, the several vessels under your command will return to the respective ports, as above directed, unless some unforeseen circumstance should prevent.​

I am, respectfully, your obedient servant,​

GIDEON WELLES, Secretary of the Navy.​

​

​

Supplies only, rienforcements if resisted.....Sounds really war like..​

 

[Savez]

And they were supposed to believe that?? I am coming to your house with 10 of my buddies armed to the teeth, I am bringing you food. No need to worry you your household or your wife won't be harmed. Yeah right.

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

No kidding. Look at the build up of ships in Pensecola Bay. The idea of the South being the aggresor is overstated.

 

[George Purvis]

Read the orders you posted and 573 they do not change these orders...In fact they support it...

The Genesis of the Civil War: the story of Sumter, 1860-1861 By Samuel Wylie Crawford Pages 128-130

Fort Sumter Charleston, S. C, December 27, 1860.
My dear Sir: I have only time to say that the movement of my command to this place was made on my own responsibility and not in obedience to orders from Washington. I did it because in my opinion it was the best way of preventing the shedding of blood. God grant that the existing condition of affairs may be adjusted without any resort to force.

Truly your friend, ROBERT ANDERSON.
The Hon. ROBERT N. GOURDIN.


End of orders argument.

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

 

[wilber6150]

And they were supposed to believe that?? I am coming to your house with 10 of my buddies armed to the teeth, I am bringing you food. No need to worry you your household or your wife won't be harmed. Yeah right.

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

So they lied to the commanders involved with the force as well?. So how exactly was Lincoln going to suddenly change the plan, was he going to beam over and tell the commanders that he changed the game plan? And wait, what a coup that would be for the Confederates when they have it in writing that only supplies woud be sent if no hostilities commence..

 

[George Purvis]

How about the orders to the naval commander with Fox..

NAVY DEPARTMENT,​

Washington, April 5, 1861.​

Captain SAMUEL MERCER,​

Commanding U. S. S. Powhatan, New York:​

SIR: The United States steamers Powhatan, Pocahontas, and Harriet Lane will compose a naval force, under your command, to be sent to the vicinity of Charleston, S. C., for the purpose of aiding in carrying out the objects of an expedition of which the War Department has charge.​

The primary object of the expedition is to provision Fort Sumter, for which purpose the War Department will furnish the necessary transports. Should the authorities at Charleston permit the fort to be supplied, no further particular service will be required of the force under your command, and after being satisfied that supplies have been received at the fort, the Powhatan, Pocahontas, and Harriet Lane will return to New York, and the Pawnee to Washington.​

Should the authorities at Charleston, however, refuse to permit or attempt to prevent the vessel or vessels having supplies on board from entering the harbor, or from peaceably proceeding to Fort Sumter, you will protect the transports or boats of the expedition in the object of their mission-disposing of your force in such manner as to open the way for their ingress and afford, so far as practicable, security to the men and boats, and repelling by force, if necessary, all obstructions towards provisioning the fort and re-enforcing it; for in case of resistance to the peaceable primary object of the expedition a re-enforcement of the garrison will also be attempted. ​

These purposes will be under the supervision of the War Department, which has charge of the expedition. The expedition has been intrusted to Captain G. V. Fox, with whom you will put yourself in communication, and co-operate with him to accomplish and carry into effect its object.​

You will leave New York with the Powhatan in time to be off Charleston Bar, ten miles distant from and due east of the light-house, on the morning of the 11th instant, there to await the arrival of the transport or transports with troops and stores. The Pawnee and Pocahontas will be ordered to join you there at the time mentioned, and also the Harriet Lane, which latter vessel has been placed under the control of this Department for this service. On the termination of the expedition, whether it be peaceable or otherwise, the several vessels under your command will return to the respective ports, as above directed, unless some unforeseen circumstance should prevent.​

I am, respectfully, your obedient servant,​

GIDEON WELLES, Secretary of the Navy.​

​

​

Supplies only, rienforcements if resisted.....Sounds really war like..​

Good boy. Now using you post we see for certain that my information was false, it is u=indeed a armed fleet.


GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

 

[Savez]

How about the orders to the naval commander with Fox..

The primary object of the expedition is to provision Fort Sumter, for which purpose the War Department will furnish the necessary transports. Should the authorities at Charleston permit the fort to be supplied, no further particular service will be required of the force under your command, and after being satisfied that supplies have been received at the fort, the Powhatan, Pocahontas, and Harriet Lane will return to New York, and the Pawnee to Washington.​

They knew without a doubt that authorities in Charleston would not let the fort be supplied. Lincoln knew it. Everyone knew it. This is just window dressing to save face.

 

[wilber6150]

So what are trying to be cute? It amazes that in every discussion a Yankee think he has to run in circles, dismiss & ignore facts posted by another, and. make snide remarks about anther poster in one way or the other. Maybe I should start the same tactics by asking are you to thick to understand written orders Do I need to break them down word for word? Am I typing to fast for you??? If this is the game you want to play, I can do it too, in fact I can get down right dirty.

Oh YES By the war somehere you asked me if I was blaming Lincoln for tyhe war. The answer is --

YES!!!! Is that plain enough for you?????

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

You keep saying that the orders you posted superceded the ones I did and would not allow him to leave Moultrie... I want you to show me where in your orders does it say that..

Because they don't, now is that clear enough for you

 

[George Purvis]

So they lied to the commanders involved with the force as well?. So how exactly was Lincoln going to suddenly change the plan, was he going to beam over and tell the commanders that he changed the game plan? And wait, what a coup that would be for the Confederates when they have it in writing that only supplies woud be sent if no hostilities commence..

Would appera that way from what you are telling me.

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

 

[wilber6150]

Good boy. Now using you post we see for certain that my information was false, it is u=indeed a armed fleet.


GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

You are the only saying it was supposed to be an unarmed fleet..For the second time why would they send unarmed ships when the Confederates had alreay fired twice on ships carrying the American flag..

 

[wilber6150]

Would appera that way from what you are telling me.

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

Really, I have posted the orders to the commanders, the info from Confederate spies, and Southern politicians and Lincolns message all saying the same thing..And all you have posted on the expedition is one list which you incorrectly summarized and your own opinion on what the plan is....

 

[George Purvis]

You keep saying that the orders you posted superceded the ones I did and would not allow him to leave Moultrie... I want you to show me where in your orders does it say that..

Because they don't, now is that clear enough for you

NO BECAUSE YOU CAN"T COMPREHEND WHT YOU ARE READING!!!!! UNDERSTAND !!!!!

Following me again aren't you???? LOL LOL LOL

GP
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