Proposed Invasion of Charleston harbor by the North

His point is if he can repeat something enough and keep circling around, he will tire me out and I'll let him have his way. Ain't gonna happen.

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

No, he has been posting actual, historical sources that support his point of view.

What you are hoping if you deny such enough, he will quit in disgust and leave you have your unsupported, partisan opinion.

Knowing Will, I KNOW it ain't gonna happen.

Unionblue
 
No, he has been posting actual, historical sources that support his point of view.

What you are hoping if you deny such enough, he will quit in disgust and leave you have your unsupported, partisan opinion.

Knowing Will, I KNOW it ain't gonna happen.

Unionblue
Yes that is his tactic, because you disagree doen't make me wrong. I posted facts also the difference is what I have posted goes against what you fellows think iis true history and that just chaps you.

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4
 
Hey heres an idea why dont you read what the orders were.. Let me summarize to make it easy for you to understand...
heres part of the memo to Anderson...


Supplies only unless resisted then the troops would be sent in to reinforce read the bloody OR's It only states that about twenty times....

Hey here is an idea why don't you read this and total up the number of men and guns---

The following list embraces the names, with armaments and troops, of Lincoln's supply fleet dispatched from New York and Washington to Charleston harbor, for the relief of Fort Sumter:-

Vessels of War
Steam sloop-of-war Pawnee, Captain S. C. Rowan, 10 guns and 200 men. The Pawnee sailed from Washington, with sealed orders, on the morning of Saturday, April 6.
Steam sloop-of-war Powhatan, Captain E. D. Porter, 11 guns and 275 men. The Powhatan sailed from the Brookyln Navy Yard on Saturday afternoon April 6.
Revenue cutter Harriet Lane, Captain J. Faunce, 5 guns and 96 men. On Saturday, April 6, the Harriet Lane exchanged her revenue flag for the United States navy flag, denoting her transfer to the Government naval service, and sailed suddenly on last Monday morning, with sealed orders.

The Steam Transports
Atlantic, 358 troops, composed of Companies A and M of the Second artillery, Companies C and H of the Second infantry, and Company A of sappers and miners from West Point. The Atlantic sailed from the steam at 5 o'clock on Sunday morning last, April 7.
Baltic, 160 troops, composed of Companies C and D, recruits, from Governor's and Bedloe's islands. The Baltic sailed from Quarantine at 7o'clock on Tuesday morning last, April 9.
Illinois, 300 troops, composed of Companies B, E, F, G and H, and a detachment from Company D, all recruits from Governor's and Bedloe's Islands, together with two companies of the Second infantry, from Fort Hamilton. The Illinois sailed from Quarantine on Tuesday morning at 6 o'clock.

The Steamtugs
Two steamtugs, with a Government official on each, bearing sealed dispatches, were also sent. The Yankee left New York on Monday evening, 8th, and the Uncle Ben on Tuesday night.

The Launches
Nearly thirty of these boats-whose services are most useful in effecting a landing of troops over shoal water, and for attacking a discharging battery when covered with sand and gunny bags- have been taken out by the Powhatan and by the steam transports Atlantic, Baltic and Illinois.

Recapitulation
Vessels Guns Men
Sloop-of-war Pawnee 10 200
Sloop-of-war Powhatan 11 275
Cutter Harriet Lane 5 96
Steam Transport Atlantic 353
Steam Transport Baltic 160
Steam Transport Illinois 300
Steamtug Yankee Ordinary Crew
Steamtug Uncle Ben Ordinary Crew
Total number of vessels 8
Total number of guns (for marine service) 26
Total number of men and troops 1,380

It is understood that several transports are soon to be chartered, and dispatched to Charleston with troops and supplies.
________________________
Those ships that were assigned specifically to Charleston.
The ships assigned were the steam sloop-of-war USS Pawnee, steam sloop-of-war USS Powhatan, transporting motorized launches and about 300 sailors (secretly removed from the Charleston fleet to join in the forced reenforcement of Fort Pickens, Pensacola, Fla.), armed screw steamer USS Pochaontas, Revenue Cutter USS Harriet Lane, steamer Baltic transporting about 200 troops, composed of companies C and D of the 2nd U.S. Artillery, and three hired tug boats. The rest of the ships listed in the New York paper went to Pensacola.

NOW THIS IS FACT REGARDLESS OF ORDERS, LETTERS OR REPORTS. If this was simply a supply mission Pickens, Davis and everyone else woould have known, just as they knew what was coming at them in this fleet.

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4
 
Hey here is an idea why don't you read this and total up the number of men and guns---

The following list embraces the names, with armaments and troops, of Lincoln's supply fleet dispatched from New York and Washington to Charleston harbor, for the relief of Fort Sumter:-

Vessels of War
Steam sloop-of-war Pawnee, Captain S. C. Rowan, 10 guns and 200 men. The Pawnee sailed from Washington, with sealed orders, on the morning of Saturday, April 6.
Steam sloop-of-war Powhatan, Captain E. D. Porter, 11 guns and 275 men. The Powhatan sailed from the Brookyln Navy Yard on Saturday afternoon April 6.
Revenue cutter Harriet Lane, Captain J. Faunce, 5 guns and 96 men. On Saturday, April 6, the Harriet Lane exchanged her revenue flag for the United States navy flag, denoting her transfer to the Government naval service, and sailed suddenly on last Monday morning, with sealed orders.

The Steam Transports
Atlantic, 358 troops, composed of Companies A and M of the Second artillery, Companies C and H of the Second infantry, and Company A of sappers and miners from West Point. The Atlantic sailed from the steam at 5 o'clock on Sunday morning last, April 7.
Baltic, 160 troops, composed of Companies C and D, recruits, from Governor's and Bedloe's islands. The Baltic sailed from Quarantine at 7o'clock on Tuesday morning last, April 9.
Illinois, 300 troops, composed of Companies B, E, F, G and H, and a detachment from Company D, all recruits from Governor's and Bedloe's Islands, together with two companies of the Second infantry, from Fort Hamilton. The Illinois sailed from Quarantine on Tuesday morning at 6 o'clock.

The Steamtugs
Two steamtugs, with a Government official on each, bearing sealed dispatches, were also sent. The Yankee left New York on Monday evening, 8th, and the Uncle Ben on Tuesday night.

The Launches
Nearly thirty of these boats-whose services are most useful in effecting a landing of troops over shoal water, and for attacking a discharging battery when covered with sand and gunny bags- have been taken out by the Powhatan and by the steam transports Atlantic, Baltic and Illinois.

Recapitulation
Vessels Guns Men
Sloop-of-war Pawnee 10 200
Sloop-of-war Powhatan 11 275
Cutter Harriet Lane 5 96
Steam Transport Atlantic 353
Steam Transport Baltic 160
Steam Transport Illinois 300
Steamtug Yankee Ordinary Crew
Steamtug Uncle Ben Ordinary Crew
Total number of vessels 8
Total number of guns (for marine service) 26
Total number of men and troops 1,380

It is understood that several transports are soon to be chartered, and dispatched to Charleston with troops and supplies.
________________________
Those ships that were assigned specifically to Charleston.
The ships assigned were the steam sloop-of-war USS Pawnee, steam sloop-of-war USS Powhatan, transporting motorized launches and about 300 sailors (secretly removed from the Charleston fleet to join in the forced reenforcement of Fort Pickens, Pensacola, Fla.), armed screw steamer USS Pochaontas, Revenue Cutter USS Harriet Lane, steamer Baltic transporting about 200 troops, composed of companies C and D of the 2nd U.S. Artillery, and three hired tug boats. The rest of the ships listed in the New York paper went to Pensacola.

NOW THIS IS FACT REGARDLESS OF ORDERS, LETTERS OR REPORTS. If this was simply a supply mission Pickens, Davis and everyone else woould have known, just as they knew what was coming at them in this fleet.

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

Read post 579 Im not showing you how wrong this list is again....
 
How about this I am not playing your stupid little tit for tat game. I gave you in Anderson's and Buchannon's own words he had no orders. Are they liars???

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4
You can't seem to comprehend the difference between someone who is ordered to do something and someone who has the authorization to do it.. And Buchannon had no idea what the heck was going on with his own advisors, half of whom were working for the South and not the Union..Once more no one ordered Anderson to go to Sumter, but they had given him the right to make the call himself...
I have given you the orders that allows Anderson to move and have asked you to show where in the orders given after that where it tells him to stay put...
 
You can't seem to comprehend the difference between someone who is ordered to do something and someone who has the authorization to do it.. And Buchannon had no idea what the heck was going on with his own advisors, half of whom were working for the South and not the Union..Once more no one ordered Anderson to go to Sumter, but they had given him the right to make the call himself...
I have given you the orders that allows Anderson to move and have asked you to show where in the orders given after that where it tells him to stay put...


You can't seem to comprend when some one says " i did it on my own"

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4
 
Davis wanted a war to draw the border states in on their side, he had been told by his spies and politicans still in Washington and Lincoln that they were going to send supplies only to the fort if no hostilites were commenced, but if fighting started they would transfer rienforcements....

The war departments letter to Anderson informing him of the mission..


WAR DEPARTMENT,​
Washington, D. C., April 4, 1861.​
Major ROBERT ANDERSON, U. S. Army:​
SIR: Your letter of the 1st instant occasions some anxiety to the President.​
On the information of Captain Fox he had supposed you could hold out till the 15th instant without any great inconvenience; and had prepared an expedition to relieve you before that period.​
Hoping still that you will be able to sustain yourself till the 11th or 12th instant, the expedition will go forward; and, finding your flag flying, will attempt to provision you, and, in case the effort is resisted, will endeavor also to re-enforce you. You will therefore hold out, if possible, till the arrival of the expedition.​
It is not, however, the intention of the President to subject your command to any danger or hardship beyond what, in your judgment, would be usual in military life; and he has entire confidence that you will act as becomes a patriot and soldier, under all circumstances.​
Whenever, if at all, in your judgment, to save yourself and command, a capitulation becomes a necessity, you are authorized to make it.​
Respectfully,​
SIMON CAMERON, Secretary of War.​
 
Show the orders!!!! Yep I posted the agreement. Good I am glad you are getting mad, it means I an doping something right!!!!

You are going in circles again.

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4
Why dont you read the thread I have already did it like three times but heres another copy..

FORT MOULTRIE, S. C., December 11, 1860.
Memorandum of verbal instructions to Major Anderson,
First Artillery, commanding at Fort Moultrie, S. C.

You are aware of the great anxiety of the Secretary of War that a collision of the troops with the people of this State shall be avoided, and of his studied determination to pursue a course with reference to the military force and forts in this harbor which shall guard against such a collision. He has therefore carefully abstained from increasing the force at this point, or taking any measures which might add to the present excited state of the public mind, or which would throw any doubt on the confidence he feels that South Carolina will not attempt, by violence, to obtain possession of the public works or interfere with their occupancy. But as the counsel and acts of rash and impulsive persons may possibly disappoint those expectations of the Government, he deems it proper that you should be prepared with instructions to meet so unhappy a contingency. He has therefore directed me verbally to give you such instructions.*
You are carefully to avoid every act which would needlessly tend to provoke aggression; and for that treason you are not, without evident and imminent necessity, to take up any position which could be construed into the assumption of a hostile attitude. But you are to hold possession of the forts in this harbor, and if attacked you are to defend yourself to the last extremity. The smallness of your force will not permit you, perhaps, to occupy more than one of the three forts, but an attack on or attempt to take possession of any one of them will be regarded as an act of hostility, and you may then put your command into either of them which you may deem most proper to increase its power of resistance. You are also authorized to take similar steps whenever you have tangible evidence of a design to proceed to a hostile act.
D. C. BUELL,​
 
Again, I have to ask do you actually read what your posting as information? Read the last paragraph of what you posted..I'll give you a hint, its a summary of what ships were actually being sent to Sumter.
A little more help...
The Atlantic and the Illinois and their troops were bound for Ft. Pickens and not Sumter. The only transport with troops heading to Sumter was the Baltic...
The Powatan was also transferred to the Pensacola expedition..
So according to your own figures the troops going to Sumter were the 160 on the Baltic, but I will give you 40 more as Fox said he had 200...

So with your own source Fox's expedition consisted of the USS Pawnee,USS Pocohontus, Revenue Cutter Harriet Lane, the steamer Baltic with 160/200 men, and three hired tug boats..Thats one heck of an invasion force...

So with the info in your list
Sloop-of-war Pawnee 10 200
Cutter Harriet Lane 5 96
Steam Transport Baltic 160
Steamtug Yankee Ordinary Crew
Steamtug Uncle Ben Ordinary Crew
Total number of vessels 5
Total number of guns (for marine service) 15
Total number of men and troops 456

So whos the one the spinning disinformation here?

This looks quite similar to the list I showed you when you asked me about it; and you said it was quite incomplete..


It is the guns that make a difference. Lincoln was sending an armed fleet with re-enforcements. You agree to this yourself so why do you continue to argue??

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4
 
It is the guns that make a difference. Lincoln was sending an armed fleet with re-enforcements. You agree to this yourself so why do you continue to argue??

GP
http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

Oh, so they should send ships with no guns even though the Confederates had fired twice on ships flying the American flag..What a joke... So how is your invsion fleet looking now...By the way have a guess how many armed Confederates annd guns this fleet was going to be facing?
 

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