Stonewall Stonewall Jackson and Autism

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Stonewall Jackson was known to have many eccentric qualities and beliefs. At the Society of Clinical Psychiatrists, there is an interesting write up that connects his behavior to Asperger's Syndrome. This is the first I've heard of this.

Here is the link: http://www.scpnet.com/paper2_2.htm

 

[Nathanb1]

Stonewall Jackson was known to have many eccentric qualities and beliefs. At the Society of Clinical Psychiatrists, there is an interesting write up that connects his behavior to Asperger's Syndrome. This is the first I've heard of this.

Here is the link: http://www.scpnet.com/paper2_2.htm

We have several existing discussions on this which you can locate by using the search function at the top of the page. I'm not sure we've ever reached a concensus, but if you have anything to add, we'd love to hear it!

 

[unicornforge]

I tried two searches, and on the third attempt at searching the forum's software told me that 45 seconds was required between searches. Without knowing what key words would be successful, finding the threads on the topic of Stonewall Jackson and Autism could take a really long time, if ever.

 

[diane]

Try Asperger's or Aspergers - you'll get two threads. Personally, I think Jackson had it - he filled too many diagnostic criteria! That said, it's not an indication of mental illness. Neurodiversity, perhaps.

 

[Nathanb1]

Oops...sorry, yes, it was Asperger's we discussed. Sorry!

That being said, my former student who has been diagnosed with Asperger's only has a 4.0 as a history major in college! Diane, I'll have to share the "Neurodiversity" idea with him--and start using it for my own ADD!!!

 

[pamc153PA]

I can totally see that Jackson falls onto the autistic spectrum. I think it's good he was living before labels came along, though, because instead of just taking the accomplishments of the (granted, quirky) man for what they were, we'd be saying something like, "Look what he accomplished, despite his Asperger's!" Look at the man as a whole, not his label.

 

[dvrmte]

Jackson definitely didn't have the thought processes of the average human. What was going through his brain would go whoosh, right over my head.

 

[Nathanb1]

Jackson definitely didn't have the thought processes of the average human. What was going through his brain would go whoosh, right over my head.

Apparently it went over his students' heads, too.

I think about him when I'm teaching--my goal is to be more like the Jackson teaching artillery--not the one teaching Natural and Experimental Philosophy!

 

[pamc153PA]

I don't think Jackson the teacher would've survived No Child Left Behind.

 

[Hannah]

If Jackson were my teacher I'd be scribbling down notes left and right.

 

[unicornforge]

If we strictly follow the Diagnostic Statistical Manual version IV-TR then a person is not diagnosable unless their symptoms are causing them difficulty. A person can have two-way conversations with a giant invisible bunny rabbit, but unless that is causing them difficulties then it is not diagnosable. Jackson was a successful general. If he did not see his quirks as problematic, and he was successful at what he did, I would not wish to ascribe any labels to him.

 

[Glorybound]

If we strictly follow the Diagnostic Statistical Manual version IV-TR then a person is not diagnosable unless their symptoms are causing them difficulty. A person can have two-way conversations with a giant invisible bunny rabbit, but unless that is causing them difficulties then it is not diagnosable. Jackson was a successful general. If he did not see his quirks as problematic, and he was successful at what he did, I would not wish to ascribe any labels to him.

That's pretty interesting Unicorn, I've not heard of that before, thanks for the post.

Lee

 

[carson_reb]

If we strictly follow the Diagnostic Statistical Manual version IV-TR then a person is not diagnosable unless their symptoms are causing them difficulty. A person can have two-way conversations with a giant invisible bunny rabbit, but unless that is causing them difficulties then it is not diagnosable. Jackson was a successful general. If he did not see his quirks as problematic, and he was successful at what he did, I would not wish to ascribe any labels to him.

I assume you are talking strictly about Autism Spectrum Disorders, and not other pervasive developmental disorders or other mental disorders of the DSM-IVR? I interject only because my foster son was diagnosed with partial fetal alcohol syndrome at eight months of age. He met some of the physical characteristics common in individuals with FAS. Given those findings and the fact that his "egg donor" admitted to drinking during her pregnancy, a diagnosis was able to be made.
He exhibits very little of the behavioral traits common in a person with FAS, and developmentally he is caught up to his peers. Inside and out, he appears to be a pretty averagel little eighteen month old now. But most cognitive and behavioral deficits don't surface until a child becomes of school age. At that point, s/he is introduced to more abstract concepts and higher levels of executive functioning are expected.
Anyway, I know little about ASD. The breadth of my knowledge right now is wrapped up in FASD and FDSD.

It is an interesting speculation about Jackson. Frankly, it is equally within the realm of possibility and reason that perhaps he wasn't clinically disordered, but rather mentally gifted. We all have our ideosyncracies, our oddities and eccentricities. Jackson wasn't any different. He defied the concept of normal because "normal" doesn't really exist beyond the criminal or clinical. Say there are ten people in a group. If one person isn't similar to nine others--i.e., he zigs when the others zag--then he is considered different and not "normal" by the others. But what exactly is "normal" in this context anyway and who defines it? A significant part of what "normal" everyday behavior appears to be is perception and conformity.

Jackson was a brilliant strategist and militarist. He was one of a kind. Unique. God broke the mold when He made Stonewall. Can we not just leave it at that? Why must some folks decide that eccentricitiy equals a clinical disorder?

I like a clean kitchen and it bothers me to see dirty dishes in the sink. So, when I see these things, I feel a desire to wash the dishes and clean the counters. That may make me weird, but does it necessarily mean I've got OCD or OCPD? I think there is a lot more to a mental disorder than just eccentric behavior.

 

[Glorybound]

Jackson was a brilliant strategist and militarist. He was one of a kind. Unique. God broke the mold when He made Stonewall. Can we not just leave it at that?

Carson, thanks for your input, but isn't that what Unicorn is suggesting, that unless the eccentricities are believed by the person to be a difficulty for them, that they are better left as described as "eccentric" or unlabeled altogether, and not necessarily as being mentally ill?

Lee

 

[K Hale]

It is an interesting speculation about Jackson. Frankly, it is equally within the realm of possibility and reason that perhaps he wasn't mentally ill, but rather mentally gifted.

I guess it needs to be reiterated that Asperger's Syndrome is not, in fact, a mental illness.

We all have our ideosyncracies, our oddities and eccentricities. Jackson wasn't any different. He defied the concept of normal because "normal" doesn't really exist. Say there are ten people in a group. If one person isn't similar to nine others, he is different and not "normal." But what exactly is "normal" anyway and who defines that?

Your sample size is too small. Yes, "normal" exists. This is not Lake Wobegon.

Jackson was a brilliant strategist and militarist. He was one of a kind. Unique. God broke the mold when He made Stonewall. Can we not just leave it at that?

Why should we? Is there something shameful in having Asperger's Syndrome?

 

[diane]

I'm an aspie. It makes life difficult sometimes but so does being left-handed! It's definitely a neurological condition, not a mental illness even though it's in the DSM-IV. (Well, maybe not...don't know if they eliminated it or not.) In fact, it's quite possible Jackson wouldn't have been a brilliant general if he saw things the way everybody else does!

 

[Glorybound]

I'm an aspie. It makes life difficult sometimes but so does being left-handed! It's definitely a neurological condition, not a mental illness even though it's in the DSM-IV. (Well, maybe not...don't know if they eliminated it or not.) In fact, it's quite possible Jackson wouldn't have been a brilliant general if he saw things the way everybody else does!

Thanks for that information, and your analysis of Jackson, and for your honesty, Diane.


Lee

 

[diane]

Glorybound,

Thanks! There's just a few things about Jackson that stick out as red flags for his being an aspie, too. For example, Jackson's artillery students dearly loved to mess with the cannon so that it fell apart on the first firing. They did this stunt almost routinely year after year and Jackson only once commented on it. He stared at the cannon for a long minute and then observed, "There must be some defect in the manufacture of these lynch pins." It never entered his mind he was being pranked! Or, he might never have married Elinor Junkin, his first wife, if he hadn't confided to D H Hill he kept seeing her face when he tried to concentrate and in his dreams - was he sick? Hill laughed and said, "You are in love!" Good thing Hill told him - he'd have never figured it out on his own!

 

[Littlestown]

...isn't that what Unicorn is suggesting, that unless the eccentricities are believed by the person to be a difficulty for them, that they are better left as described as "eccentric" or unlabeled altogether, and not necessarily as being mentally ill?
Lee

That's the way I understood him also.

 

[carson_reb]

I guess it needs to be reiterated that Asperger's Syndrome is not, in fact, a mental illness.


Your sample size is too small. Yes, "normal" exists. This is not Lake Wobegon.


Why should we? Is there something shameful in having Asperger's Syndrome?

You'll note that at the beginning of my post, I refer to Asperger's as a disorder; not an illness. It is classified by the DSM-IV as a developmental disorder; a mental developmental disorder.
http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=97#

Perhaps you didn't note that part of my post, and only the part where I used the term "mentally ill" near the end. My human apologies for not being consistent.

What exactly is "normal" anyway? Anyone have more than a guess? I've been searching for the criteria and the standard for years.

Did I say there was something shameful about it? No. I'm just curious why some people think that eccentricities equal a disorder. That's all. Heck, I'm eccentric, but the last thing I think about is whether or not I'm disordered. I'm certainly not going to pay a shrink to find out whether or not I meet some or all of a DSM-IVR impairment, either.