HF Westerns

[Lincoln56]

It was made by people who've never watched a western, and have no concept of history changing. They said it'd all be fine and the audience won't notice, but I did ask the director if they did the same with a modern movie, and then having people run around with 2001 cell phones in 2020, and people driving 2023 cars in 2000, would the audience notice?

He got a blank face and said we probably screwed up big time needed to hope for the best!

A great approach to making directors and producers understand what is at the heart of everyone striving for historical accuracy.
'No one will notice' is used as an excuse for whatever reason all too often.

Sorry to hear this regarding your props and damage to weapons yet you still sound upbeat and positive about the experience.

 

[Kurtlg]

Interesting regarding Eastwood as far as smoking. Think for many, Clint smoking a Cheroot Cigar is iconic.

Hard to believe that at one point in 1959 there were 30 western themed TV shows. In March 1959 8 of the top 10 shows were westerns; western toy sales that year were $125 million, roughly equivalent to $1,318,947,594.50 today (955.2% increase due to inflation).

Some favorites:

TV Shows
Gunsmoke, The Virginian, Deadwood, and Lonesome Dove miniseries

Movies
The Shootist, Open Range, Unforgiven, The Searchers, The Ox-Bow Incident, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance,
Rooster Cogburn, Once Upon a Time in the West, Outlaw Josey Wales, Hang 'em High, Pale Rider, Tombstone, Ulzana's Raid,
The Ballad of Lefty Brown

Comedy
The Cheyenne Social Club, Support Your Local Sheriff

Probably not necessary to say but one can see from above, liked for entertainment value over historical accuracy.

Historical accuracy and westerns rarely go together. The inaccurate weapons bothered me most but there were often other issues as well. I also learned to see them as entertainment and not let the inaccuracies bother me as much.

 

[Pollaco]

Many, many hours of my younger years were spent being entertained by Westerns. And that's what they were...entertaining. But I find myself being more critical as I age.TV shows like the Lone Ranger were aimed at youths and not a more mature audience.If the some Western movies had a plot at all it was a simple one.

 

[Kurtlg]

Many, many hours of my younger years were spent being entertained by Westerns. And that's what they were...entertaining. But I find myself being more critical as I age.TV shows like the Lone Ranger were aimed at youths and not a more mature audience.If the some Western movies had a plot at all it was a simple one.

Watching some of the old TV westerns can be disappointing. Many don't hold up. As a youngster I had some of the toys associated with the shows. It was a transition period and me and my friends were soon more interested in WW2 era toy guns , mortars and bazookas. One show that still holds up for me is Gunsmoke , especially the early episodes. In any case we actually played outside and used our imaginations.

 

[Pollaco]

A plot with a twist, proper technology, good actors and Claudia Cardinale. My favorite is still "Once Upon a Time in the West". I somehow feel many have yet to discover this gem?

 

[A. Roy]

Watching some of the old TV westerns can be disappointing. Many don't hold up. As a youngster I had some of the toys associated with the shows. It was a transition period and me and my friends were soon more interested in WW2 era toy guns , mortars and bazookas. One show that still holds up for me is Gunsmoke , especially the early episodes. In any case we actually played outside and used our imaginations.

Yes, I still like "Gunsmoke." Been re-watching that recently from the beginning.

Now you mention toys, I remember having a kind of "Lone Ranger" kit, maybe ordered with cereal box tops. I think it included a silver bullet (plastic, naturally) and a mask with an odd fabric smell that I can almost conjure up today. Also had a toy rifle called a "Cheyenne" Singin' Saddle Gun that made a ricochet noise when you pulled the trigger. The gun generated a little bit of air, so if you stuck the muzzle into the mud (red clay in NC), it would shoot out a ways.

ARB

 

[TallTallMan]

Sorry I was gone for a while. But here I am!

There are some westerns that could have been way,way better if they had a decent technical advisor or historian on the set. Vera Cruz is a good example. Good plot but they were using equipment that hadn't been developed yet.

I was just watching Rio Lobo and was confused by Jack Elam's double-barreled Winchester existing in 1865.

I'm not much for old Westerns, especially as I don't care for John Wayne.

My favorites:

Tombstone

The Quick & The Dead

True Grit (the remake)

3:10 to Yuma (the remake),
especially for its haunting meditation on honor and cowardice.

The Magnificent Seven (remake)

Unforgiven

Honorable mentions to Firefly/Serenity and Hell or High Water, which are essentially Westerns in other settings.

Looks good! I still have never seen TM7's remake, but I saw the trailer for it at The Force Awakens back in '15.

Always enjoyed a film with Bruce Dern.

 

[TallTallMan]

I like it because it parodys everything including other movies, one the brothers is a western Forrest Gump. One brother is the guy who left his post at Ford theater. It even has Wyatt Earp, Mark Twain and Custer in it.

Another non traditional western I liked was Purgatory, more a traditional western but with supernatural angle.

Sounds like Little Big Man.

I was flipping channels and got into Last Train From Gun Hill with Anthony Quinn and Kirk Douglas. Major Dundee was a good one.
As mentioned above a lot of older movies had great character actors with life experience. They are sadly missing. Too many modern actors are indistinguishable.

Was it on Grit? I think I saw that was coming on.

 

[TallTallMan]

@Stryker65 Hey buddy, you watch any?

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

A great approach to making directors and producers understand what is at the heart of everyone striving for historical accuracy.
'No one will notice' is used as an excuse for whatever reason all too often.

Sorry to hear this regarding your props and damage to weapons yet you still sound upbeat and positive about the experience.

I don't know about upbeat. I drove from near Arkansas, down to Austin, then further out west, before a death in the family forced me to haul a** east to Beaumont through the Texas Hill County and Houston. Then a long drive north home.

With more prop and gun damage to come in my absence as an assistant took over. A brand new Dragoon revolver practically destroyed and Hollywood not replacing it.

That journey shall forever be remembered by me as "The Great Texas Triangle of H*ll"

It's more a matter of I don't know whether to laugh or cry, and I choose laugh. Least I had some fun doubling as an extra that didn't try to steal guns, and got to see the Texas Ranger Hall of Fame on my way down.

 

[carptrash]

I have to add High Noon with Gary Coper and Shane with Alan Ladd. I always like River With No Return with Robert Mitchum.

I was looking for these and was surprised how many posting passed them up. If you have not compared "Shane" with "Pale Rider," do it.

 

[damYankee]

Interesting regarding Eastwood as far as smoking. Think for many, Clint smoking a Cheroot Cigar is iconic.

Hard to believe that at one point in 1959 there were 30 western themed TV shows. In March 1959 8 of the top 10 shows were westerns; western toy sales that year were $125 million, roughly equivalent to $1,318,947,594.50 today (955.2% increase due to inflation).

Some favorites:

TV Shows
Gunsmoke, The Virginian, Deadwood, and Lonesome Dove miniseries

Movies
The Shootist, Open Range, Unforgiven, The Searchers, The Ox-Bow Incident, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance,
Rooster Cogburn, Once Upon a Time in the West, Outlaw Josey Wales, Hang 'em High, Pale Rider, Tombstone, Ulzana's Raid,
The Ballad of Lefty Brown

Comedy
The Cheyenne Social Club, Support Your Local Sheriff

Probably not necessary to say but one can see from above, liked for entertainment value over historical accuracy.

Westerns were the King of Prime Time back in "the day." We watch Grit network and Inspiration Network and enjoy many of the old classics.
IMO, there are two distinct eras of western movies, Pre Shane and Post Shane.
Pre Shane, Stagecoach (bad boy saves fallen angel, or did she save him?) followed by the Ford/Wayne Trilogy, Fort Apache, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon and Rio Grande, which presented the clean cut hero, battle tested and honorable.
Shane presented the lone wolf, fast gun with a questionable background, who takes on the evil cattle baron, (much along the story line of the Magnificent Seven.)
Even Ford got in on the questionable hero with Wayne's character in The Searchers.
Eastwood was once asked about his inspiration for his Man with No Name and he instantly said, Shane, and he said Pale Rider was just a remake of and a tribute to Shane. The ending makes that crystal clear.
After the successes of the Eastwood/Leone partnership everyone jumped on the bandwagon, copying cinematography style, lighting, the use of facial close ups etc.

 

[SJU]

Sounds like Little Big Man.

Was it on Grit? I think I saw that was coming on.

TCM. I was just flipping channels and really got into it.

 

[archieclement]

That movie is an interesting one. Probably the most historically accurate portrayal, but it's not the most entertaining movie. Kind of drags on and a bit too quiet for me.

But it's got its strengths. I love how it shows what happened to the Fords afterwards.

I did read in an article that Brad Pitt purchased the guns he used in that movie.

They went a little over the top with psychological drama/thriller aspect, but think as entertainment it worked.

Do think guerrillas/outlaws and to lesser extent regular soldiers do or can take on rather fatalistic outlooks though.

 

[DixieRifles]

My second fav is True Grit with Jeff Bridges,

When it came out, I questioned why remake a Duke western. However I was impressed as it seemed to be true to what I understand was in the book. And I did NOT miss the Duke's mannerisms seen in everyone of his movies, but that is why the audience went to his movies.

However "True Grit" did pull off one of those 8-shot revolver scenes: the one where he is shooting tossed biscuits. And I think Tombstone had one of those scenes— it never impressed me.

 

[DixieRifles]

I forget who said it but someone once said "Leo Gordan was the scariest man I ever met".

He had reason— Leo served time.
This video compares his life to the character he protrayed on Andy Griffin TV Show.

 

[TallTallMan]

When it came out, I questioned why remake a Duke western. However I was impressed as it seemed to be true to what I understand was in the book. And I did NOT miss the Duke's mannerisms seen in everyone of his movies, but that is why the audience went to his movies.

However "True Grit" did pull off one of those 8-shot revolver scenes: the one where he is shooting tossed biscuits. And I think Tombstone had one of those scenes— it never impressed me.

I love Duke's films (profile notice) but I never liked TG. Aside from his portrayal of Cogburn, it never seemed to have the pizzazz. I think Henry Hathway's prosaic directing's the problem. The remake feels more authentic to me.

 

[TallTallMan]

@archieclement @Polloco @Kurtlg

Ones I forgot to mention:

The Shootist is probably my second favorite ever. I almost cry at the climax every time. Surprisingly brutal for a Duke film!

High Noon's first watching scared the diarrhea out of me with that ending!

High Plains Drifter's ghostly screwup of cliches worked

 

[A. Roy]

The Shootist is probably my second favorite ever. I almost cry at the climax every time. Surprisingly brutal for a Duke film!

I had read the book before the movie and thought the story seemed tailor-made for the Duke. I believe I read at the time that he actually already had cancer when he made this movie, which made the story particularly touching.
ARB

 

[TallTallMan]

I had read the book before the movie and thought the story seemed tailor-made for the Duke. I believe I read at the time that he actually already had cancer when he made this movie, which made the story particularly touching.
ARB

I've long wanted to read the novel. I've seen about 400+ Westerns but have only read Shane.