Standard rifle carry

[OkieReb]

I'm new here, and hope I'm posting this in the right place.
I can't find an answer to this question anywhere.
How were the Enfield and Springfield rifle originally carried safely when it could be needed quickly?
When marching into battle it makes sense the powder and ball would loaded but no cap placed so when the line was ready a cap is loaded and you're ready to fire. Or maybe I'm wrong and they marched in empty. But the meat of the question is when one is scouting, on patrol, or otherwise in a situation where they may need to fire at a moments notice, how would the rifle be carried. There may also be regulation vs. common practice to this as well. I assume two possibilities. One: rifle loaded with a primer and hammer on half cock, though this risks losing the primer. And two: rifle loaded with a primer and hammer lowered onto primer(obviously a dangerous option). to me its like the "conditions" of a 1911 pistol with safety vs. speed. Does anyone have any thoughts or material to answer this?
Thank you

 

[Frederick14Va]

In general... evidence would indicate that soldiers didn't habitually march about with loaded weapons 24/7, nor usually loaded while on the march. Many factors including weather conditions that could render muskets unserviceable. Commonly noted they were usually only mentioned being loaded when moving into line when threat or action is forthcoming.

While on guard or picket duty we find accounts where they were sometimes pre-loaded, many other times not, unless needed to be, or a potential threat is approaching.

Majority of the time when loaded they were also capped. A few examples and accounts that troops were ordered something different, such as load but not cap when staging for an attack. The intention there was to have the troops advance quickly and removing the typical urge for a soldier to want to stop and return fire. These were exceptions to the usual habits.

Unfortunately period manuals do not specifically give details that when the weapon is loaded does the hammer stay at half-cock or placed down upon the cap/cone, when not immediately going into aim and fire mode. Another item to remember is that period manuals were usually upgraded and simplified versions of much older manuals during the era of flintlocks. When using a flintlock, the hammer is placed at half cock and the pan primed, frizzen closed, it has to stay in the half cock position. Once percussion arms came about the same loading step methods are copied/listed exactly the same.. however is void of details of what to do next in regards to use with percussion arms... leave at half cock or not.. This has long been a source of confusion and debate amongst reenactors. Some do it one way or the other.

A huge misconception and reenactorism is that half-cock is implied to be the "safety" position of sorts, applying a modern weapon forte with historical weapons, that do not have such a specific feature mode. Personally in 40 years I have never seen a weapon accidently discharge while the hammer was resting upon the cap.. But have seen many that did discharge when it was left in the half-cock position... snagged on brush, clothing, gear, bumped, or just failure of the sear/tumbler that allowed the hammer to fall resulting in discharge. Different units and groups will have their own different interpretation, protocols and habits thereof.

 

[captaindrew]

The safest way to carry a charged piece is hammer down on a spent cap to seal the nipple. It certainly doesn't take much time to prime the piece when needed.

 

[OkieReb]

Thank you so much for your well thought out and thorough answer. That's exactly what I was looking for. The manuals being rewritten from the flintlock is something that had never occurred to me. But it makes perfect sense they would do that. And thanks for the info about resting the hammer on the primer. It still makes me feel nervous. But it's good to know.
Again thank you

 

[DixieRifles]

The safest way to carry a charged piece is hammer down on a spent cap to seal the nipple. It certainly doesn't take much time to prime the piece when needed.

When I hunted with my .50 Hawken, I carried it all day loaded and primed at half cock. Of course the No 11 cap is snaller than a musket cap and doesnt have the bent tangs.

Im not an expert on drill but I agree that they didnt load their guns until in proximity to the enemy. I think this was a matter of safety. A large crowd of idle men with loaded guns is a recipe for disaster.

 

[mofederal]

I always left a spent cap under the hammer in the field, the safest way to carry a rifle/musket.

 

[DixieRifles]

I trust that half-cock is a goid safety if weapon is properly handled.

There was an accident in Texas nany years ago when a hunter pulled a muzzle loader out of the bed of his pickup, which was probably filled with hunting & camping equipment. He pulled it out by the barrel and the trigger snagged on something and he accidentally shot himself.

I had a rule never carry a loaded/primed rifle in the car but sometimes it was necessary while out hunting, especially carrying a shotgun during turkey season. That is when I wish I had vertical rifle rack like the have in police cars.

 

[captaindrew]

When I hunted with my .50 Hawken, I carried it all day loaded and primed at half cock. Of course the No 11 cap is snaller than a musket cap and doesnt have the bent tangs.

Im not an expert on drill but I agree that they didnt load their guns until in proximity to the enemy. I think this was a matter of safety. A large crowd of idle men with loaded guns is a recipe for disaster.

I agree as well, normally you wouldn't load till going into action and on the field you'd be loaded at half cock but I personally wouldn't feel good about it for any length of time or navigating rough terrain.

 

[DixieRifles]

or navigating rough terrain.

Or with a group of tired teenagers who were scared and jumpy.

 

[captaindrew]

Or with a group of tired teenagers who were scared and jumpy.

That's for sure, that goes for any conflict in our history

 

[Glen_C]

Port arms.

 

[DixieRifles]

Im reading Timothy Smith's book on Champion Hill. The terrain and foilage around Champion Hill prevented the units from advancing in any tuoe of formation.

 

[thomas aagaard]

I

Unfortunately period manuals do not specifically give details that when the weapon is loaded does the hammer stay at half-cock or placed down upon the cap/cone, when not immediately going into aim and fire mode.

That is simply not correct. The manual of arms is completely clear about this issue... if one do as the book tell you to do and nothing more.,
(numbers are from Casey, but the text is the same in the two versions of Hardee's)


When first loading you go to shoulder arms with the weapon at half cock. (174-177)
175 say half cock. and 176-177 don't tell you do do anything else.

If you have full cocked the weapon as part of an "aim" order the manual clearly tell you to keep it at full cock when ordered to recover arms.
And then go to half cock when going to shoulder arms. (191-193)

The order to Load will either end with you going to shoulder arms with the weapon on half cock... if given when you have not just fired. (174-177)
or ending at "ready" at full cock. when given as part of the firing orders. (271)

The order to Cease Firing don't tell us explicit, but do tell us that we load the weapon. And since we are not full cocking until we go to ready and we are specifically told to half cock before going to shoulder arms... that is obviously what you do. (274)

There is to my knowledge no case of you being told to lower the hammer on a new cap of a loaded weapon.

The drill book actually don't give the option of going to shoulder arms with a unloaded weapon if it have been loaded...
But obviously after you fired the commander can just order recover arms and then shoulder arms.
Then the hammer will be lowered on a spend cap.


And why is pretty simple. When half cocked the weapons is safe...

A huge misconception and reenactorism is that half-cock is implied to be the "safety" position of sorts, applying a modern weapon forte with historical weapons, that do not have such a specific feature mode.

(...)
But have seen many that did discharge when it was left in the half-cock position... snagged on brush, clothing, gear, bumped, or just failure of the sear/tumbler that allowed the hammer to fall resulting in discharge. Different units and groups will have their own different interpretation, protocols and habits thereof.

Some period weapons did in fact have a clear safety position, just above the cap, making sure that it can't fall off. This was found on a number of the weapons used by the danish army. (many of them french weapons)

and the last part...
Then you should find a unit with a 1st sergeant that know his job. When the trigger is not pulled, the hammer should not be able to get past "half cock" and any weapon that don't have this safety should be removed from the line as part of your "inspection arms"

 

[Spunk Puppy]

What about the sentries hmm?

Did they just wait until they were being shot at to cap hmm??

 

[Camp Randall Armory]

Sentries would have the weapon capped and at half cock.

 

[OkieReb]

Great discussion here. And thank you all for the great info.

 

[Adam1stVa]

I agree as well, normally you wouldn't load till going into action and on the field you'd be loaded at half cock but I personally wouldn't feel good about it for any length of time or navigating rough terrain.

I have read that the 140th New York went nearly all the way up LRT before loading - when the Confederate assault from the Texas and Alabama troops was at its peek. They were even in a position of receiving flanking fire.

 

[7thWisconsin]

2nd Wisconsin charged into McPherson's Woods with unloaded muskets because there was no time to load. Muskets on the march were generally carried unloaded and loaded just before action. Not only is this obviously safer, it also saves wear on the muskets themselves, and thousands of rounds of ammunition. Think about it: there are only 2 ways to remove a charge, the hard way of pulling it, and the easy one of firing it. Or your troops load right before going into action.

 

[1903sprfld]

when one came off sentry duty how did they get the ball and powder out of the barrel I imagine it would not always be possible to unload it but firing it

 

[captaindrew]

when one came off sentry duty how did they get the ball and powder out of the barrel I imagine it would not always be possible to unload it but firing it

There is a screw adapter that goes on the threaded end of the rammer or a cleaning rod that can grab the ball and pull it out. Not home right now or I'd give you a picture. If nobody beats me to it I'll post it later.