Boy or Girl?

[LostGettysburgAddress]

I am not an expert but my first reaction was that this was a fake. The suggestion of opening the jacket bothers me. Maybe it should excite me, but it looks like a red flag.

 

[TerryB]

Here's another example of the same mat... this also a ninth plate. I don't know that I can prove legitimacy one way or the other so each will have to make up their own mind about what to think of the mat...
View attachment 97198 View attachment 97199 View attachment 97200

This look much more like it.

 

[TerryB]

I agree with you. This does look like something from the Centennial period. Her hair looks like a 1960's style. I suspect this girl had her picture made in this uniform at some gift shop at a Civil War museum during the 1960's. Photography can be well done to look like authentic photos of times gone by. My sister and her family had such a picture made at a museum gift shop I think at Gettysburg. It looks really authentic except for my sister and her daughter's eye make up.

That's possible...I just don't have a theory yet. As to gender, I voted boy, probably just to be contrarian. It could really be either one, and there's as much chance of it being genuine as there is modern.

 

[John Hartwell]

Long, dangling ear rings make it easy.

 

[Mike Serpa]

I voted boy. The only thing that (maybe) says girl is the longish hair. Boys have full lips and pretty eyes, too. No visible facial hair is no problem. The hands seem large to be a girls.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

I wish every, single poster would stop making so much sense. It's very confusing! Honest to goodness. If I were some person given the job to decide based listening to all this I'd crawl out the window. You're all very good.

 

[FarawayFriend]

As someone already stated "transgender", I would go with that.
I have a colleague, she wears ladies clothes, long hair, uses make-up and nail polish and frequents the ladies restroom. But she is every inch a man. Broad shoulders, narrow hips, large hands and feet, deep booming voice, robust gait. And unfortunately last week I have noticed she is now balding at the temples. So, sometimes it's probably not as easy as "Boy or Girl".

 

[LostGettysburgAddress]

It also concerns me that the face is a completely different color than the hands or even the neck. Also it appears that the face could have been replaced. Finally, as in the antiques business, too good to be true usually proves untrue.

OK and the come hither look is suspicious.

 

[Forrest]

I am not an expert but my first reaction was that this was a fake. The suggestion of opening the jacket bothers me. Maybe it should excite me, but it looks like a red flag.

If you think it is a fake, why would you be bothered by opening the preserver to examine the mat or even the photograph? I am assuming that by 'jacket', you mean the preserver that holds the photograph, mat and cover glass in place.

Giving it more thought, I am even more confident that the mat is fine - the stamping along the edge of the mat was common and generally had the maker's name and an identifying number. It doesn't concern me too much that this one isn't in Nolan's book, as his book is not all-inclusive;i.e-it is a work in progress and he has additional mats, cases, etc that he plans to add.

But the 'girl vs boy' thing is still a mystery to me. There is another Civil War photo currently on ebay, that purports to show a female with a Hardee hat. I always wondered what the man in the photo would think if he were told back in 1865 that this is what would have occurred with his photograph. But his/her name was 'Pat', so that's no help.

 

[Private Watkins]

I always wondered what the man in the photo would think if he were told back in 1865 that this is what would have occurred with his photograph. But his/her name was 'Pat', so that's no help.

Lol & Indeed...! And for that matter I care not to contemplate what awaits for us by those who will judge by the standards of 150 years into the future...!

 

[Forrest]

It also concerns me that the face is a completely different color than the hands or even the neck. Also it appears that the face could have been replaced. Finally, as in the antiques business, too good to be true usually proves untrue.

OK and the come hither look is suspicious.

Lol & Indeed...! And for that matter I care not to contemplate what awaits for us by those who will judge by the standards of 150 years into the future...!

With that thought in mind, here's an 1850's woman who, if you put her in jeans and flannel, would look fairly manly - at least as much so as the man-woman in question looks womanly:

 

[Northern Light]

Look at this post of Ken Burns when he first made the Civil War documentary. He has very soft feminine features and if you didn't know, you might mistake him for a woman. Just saying!

 

[Allie]

Look at this post of Ken Burns when he first made the Civil War documentary. He has very soft feminine features and if you didn't know, you might mistake him for a woman. Just saying!

He's very girly, but again, if you look at the bridge of the nose where it meets his forehead, it's a dead giveaway.

Another giveaway that most people don't know to look for is the length of the spine between the shoulderblades. Testosterone makes this part of the spine lengthen, pushing it outward, thus men's backs are curved differently which affects how the neck sits into the shoulders. Women's necks are more upright while men's stick out to the front.

 

[FarawayFriend]

He's very girly, but again, if you look at the bridge of the nose where it meets his forehead, it's a dead giveaway.

Another giveaway that most people don't know to look for is the length of the spine between the shoulderblades. Testosterone makes this part of the spine lengthen, pushing it outward, thus men's backs are curved differently which affects how the neck sits into the shoulders. Women's necks are more upright while men's stick out to the front.

Fascinating!

As for Ken Burns, he reminds me very much of a famous ballet dancer and director, John Neumaier. When I first saw the documentary, I couldn't believe that someone like him would be interested in warfare and artillery ... and he has such a soft voice! But he has meanwhile grown a beard, and that makes it clear.

 

[Mohawk1960]

Very handsome young lad!!!! You can tell by the adams apple!!!!!

 

[Forrest]

Here's an ambrotype of a woman who looks sort of like a man. But you all might disagree - it won't offend me!

 

[Private Watkins]

Here's an ambrotype of a woman who looks sort of like a man. But you all might disagree - it won't offend me!

Lol... wow, no disrespect intended but it's not just "sort of"...

 

[James B White]

Here's an ambrotype of a woman who looks sort of like a man. But you all might disagree - it won't offend me!

The hair part looks unusual. Usually, after so many years especially, of parting it down the middle and pulling it back, there was a noticeable strip of scalp showing as a lighter color, where the hair parted. You can see it in the photo in post 71. But not here. I'd say wig, rather than natural hair dyed oddly dark.

 

[Northern Light]

Yikes, is that for real?

 

[tryagain]

Picture # 1 [female]
Picture #2 a beard and an Adams apple {male}
By the way any expert recognize the pattern on # 2 uniform?