Would you believe?

[Cavalry Charger]

'In conclusion, "Would You Believe?" that the visit of the Confederate warship Shenandoah to Melbourne in 1865 would lead to the development of the Victorian colonial navy, giving rise to the need for a Victorian naval ensign that evolved into the current Australian National Flag.'

Southern Cross Down Under

This lecture is the remarkable tale of a ship's voyage around the world 146 years ago and how its visit to Melbourne influenced the creation of the Australian National Flag.'

http://nava.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/icv24kelly.pdf

 

[jgoodguy]

'In conclusion, "Would You Believe?" that the visit of the Confederate warship Shenandoah to Melbourne in 1865 would lead to the development of the Victorian colonial navy, giving rise to the need for a Victorian naval ensign that evolved into the current Australian National Flag.'

Southern Cross Down Under

This lecture is the remarkable tale of a ship's voyage around the world 146 years ago and how its visit to Melbourne influenced the creation of the Australian National Flag.'

http://nava.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/icv24kelly.pdf

Interesting article. A lesson in how small random events can have large results.

 

[Cavalry Charger]

Interesting article. A lesson in how small random events can have large results.

That is EXACTLY what I thought It's like the butterfly wings in South America ending up in a hurricane on the other side of the world. Life lesson in how we impact one another and the world, IMO, JGG.

 

[Cavalry Charger]

'The subterfuge of an armed vessel showing false colours was legal under the laws of war, provided that the attacking ship did not fire live rounds before hoisting its authentic flag.' (Taken from above link)

I thought this was interesting, and definitively states the laws of war in operation at the time.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Great article ! Thanks.

Many people forget that during the 1860s, each Australian Colony was an independent entity until the Federation of 1901.

 

[Cavalry Charger]

each Australian colony was an independent entity.

The spirit of independence lives on

 

[Hawkeye Brehm]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Cavalry Charger]

"It was normal for ships in the 19th century not to fly a flag at sea, but only in port and when in sight of other ships at sea. However, to celebrate New Year's Day 1865, the Shenandoah "hoisted the Confederate flag and kept it up all day to welcome the New Year." (Taken from above link)

 

[Jimklag]

'In conclusion, "Would You Believe?" that the visit of the Confederate warship Shenandoah to Melbourne in 1865 would lead to the development of the Victorian colonial navy, giving rise to the need for a Victorian naval ensign that evolved into the current Australian National Flag.'

Southern Cross Down Under

This lecture is the remarkable tale of a ship's voyage around the world 146 years ago and how its visit to Melbourne influenced the creation of the Australian National Flag.'

http://nava.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/icv24kelly.pdf

Deb, your story reminds me of the James Burke series Connections which showed how seemingly unrelated small occurences connected with each other and something big blossomed out of the connections between the small events.

 

[Cavalry Charger]

Deb, your story reminds me of the James Burke series Connections which showed how seemingly unrelated small occurences connected with each other and something big blossomed out of the connections between the small events.

I'm going to add some more little snippets for anyone who doesn't have time to read the whole article. The 'knock on' effect is interesting in the extreme.

 

[Cavalry Charger]

'In Australia, the visit of the Shenandoah had created considerable interest. There was generally a degree of sympathy for the cause of the South, with some remembering the little rebellion at Ballarat in 1854 when miners at the Eureka Stockade fought for their democratic rights. For others, the visit of a foreign warship operating as a commerce raider roused fears and identified a need for self-defence.

There had been earlier fears about the possibility of Russian Imperial ambitions. The Crimean War of 1854-55 had created apprehension in the Australian colonies about the rising naval power of the Russian Empire, whilst cruises of the Pacific by various Russian naval ships confirmed the vulnerability of the Australian colonies.'

 

[Cavalry Charger]

'The British government view was that whilst the reputation of the Royal Navy was sufficient deterrent against aggression, the colonies could have stronger defence, if they paid for it out of their own resources.

At the beginning of the American Civil War in 1861, the colony's sole warship, the Victoria, was on loan to New Zealand as part of the First Maori War. Whilst the ship had done useful services, the burden of it high operating costs led to its decommissioning in July 1864 and its transfer to survey duties. The defence of Melbourne relied solely on the artillery batteries on the harbour shores and an experimental gun-raft.

Following the visit, the Victorian government undertook a review the colony's defences and this was reinforced by the British government forming the view that the colonies should take more responsibility for their own defences. The British Parliament passed the Colonial Naval Defence Act on 7 April 1865, to authorise the colonies to acquire and use vessels of war, raise and maintain seamen and a body of volunteers and for appointing commissioned officers. The volunteers were to have the "privilege" of being part of the Royal Navy Reserve and colonial ships and crew were to be available to serve as part of the Royal Navy if required by the "mother country"'

 

[Cavalry Charger]

'No reasons for the use of the Southern Cross are recorded in the archives or the newspaper reports of the period. (Figure 49) One paper commented: "Our flag is a gay, a picturesque, and a significant emblem. It is the meteor flag of England, with stars added thereto—the noble constellation of the cross—which recall the banner of another mighty Anglo-Saxon nation on the West of the Atlantic." This was a reference to the use of stars on the United States flag, one of only five national flags at the time to use stars (U.S., El Salvador, Chile, Liberia and Turkey). Whilst the visit of the Shenandoah had increased the importance of naval defence, there is no suggestion that the design of the Confederate flag had any influence on the design of the Victorian flag. It was a coincidence that both flags were described as the "Southern Cross Flag" for the saltire on the Confederate flag is referring to "the South" and not to the constellation, which is not visible in southern USA. Another paper was dismissive of the new flag, observing that in practice only the red mercantile shipping version of the flag would be widely used and "at a distance it will be difficult to distinguish the Victorian from the purely British ensign."'

 

[Cavalry Charger]

Victorian Government Ensign, February 1870

Expired Image Removed Australian National Flag, 1909

 

[Cavalry Charger]

'The story of the Shenandoah Incident continues to generate public interest in Australia...Commemoration of the 150th Anniversary of the American Civil War has begun, and we pay our respects to the soldiers and sailors who fought in that tragic war, especially those that died for their nation's banners. I have learnt much about the flags of the Confederacy, especially its naval flags through the story of the Shenandoah and its Australian visit.' (all quotes taken from link)

 

[Jimklag]

Victorian Government Ensign, February 1870

Expired Image Removed Australian National Flag, 1909

I like the Victoria flag better. The big Commonwealth star detracts a little from the design IMO.

 

[Cavalry Charger]

I like the Victoria flag better. The big Commonwealth star detracts a little from the design IMO.

Agreed

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

I'm glad efforts to preserve the remains of HMVS Cerberus are still active.

 

[Cavalry Charger]

I'm glad efforts to preserve the remains of HMVS Cerberus are still active.

'However, by 1870, with the arrival of HMVS Nelson and the imminent arrival of HMVS Cerberus, the need for a naval ensign became more apparent. On 1 February 1870 the Victorian Government adopted a new flag for vessels in the government's service—"the Blue Ensign, having in the fly thereof the distinguishing badge of the colony, viz: five white stars, representing the constellation of the Southern Cross." HMVS Nelson had arrived in Melbourne on 4 February 1868 and it is unclear what flag it initially used, though it may have used the White Ensign, possibly with a crown as a badge (i.e. the gun-raft flag). The new Victorian naval ensign and the new mercantile flag were formally inaugurated on HMVS Nelson on 9 February 1870 with a cruise around the Bay for 200 dignitaries.'

 

[Cavalry Charger]

Significance of HMVS Cerberus:

1. Launched in 1868 Cerberus is the only remaining breastwork monitor class warship left in the world. Cerberus not only has its hull but also its gun turrets and its guns.
2. Cerberus was the first of the modern battleships.
3. Preceding HMS Devastation by almost three years, Cerberus was the first British warship to dispense completely with sail power and to incorporate the shallow draft.
4. Cerberus was the first, and is the only remaining example, of a Monitor having a central superstructure.
5. The design for the Cerberus was the first in the world to incorporate the combination of a central superstructure with fore and aft gun turrets.
6. Cerberus is the only substantially intact surviving warship of any of Australia's pre-Federation colonial navies.
7. Cerberus is the oldest as well as the only surviving inaugural warship, to have served in the Royal Australian Navy.
8. Cerberus represented Cutting Edge Technology from the 1860's.
9. Cerberus was the flagship and most powerful warship of the Victorian Navy. In addition it was the most powerful warship of any of the Australian Colonial Navies.
10. Cerberus incorporated the latest developments in metallurgy, steam power, gun turrets and the use of low freeboard.
11. Cerberus was the first armoured warship built for Australia.

http://www.cerberus.com.au/index.html