Would greatly appreciate some help-

[Georgia]

Hi,
First post here, and I'm about to let y'all all in on the fact that I'm way out of my comfort level.
But, I'm hoping to begin to unravel a family story that involves a long rifle.

The family story was told as follows: My great Grandfather was on his way coming back home after the end of the Civil War. He went through Kentucky ( gotta see where he saw action to even authenticate this information) and traded his Army issued rifle to a farmer for a long rifle he felt would be more helpful to him on the family farm.
Fast forward to the late 1930's-1940's and my Daddy remembers he and his cousins playing WWII and finding the rifle in a corn crib on his grandfather's farm. A concerned uncle took out the "firing parts" so no one had to worry the cousins would shoot each other and let the boys play with it. This rifle and the seed pods off a magnolia- once you snap off the stem and lob them made decent hand grenades for many battles.

Again, a jump forward to the mid 1970's and Daddy got what was left of the rifle and replaced the missing parts so it was complete enough to be displayed over the fireplace in our den.

Daddy has now passed the Franken-rifle on to me. I love it because I remember him telling me about it and working on getting it somewhat put together. He explained it was a poor man's tiger maple made by wrapping a kerosene soaked string around the stock and lighting it on fire.
With other artifacts or pseudo-artifacts from the Civil War, it's somewhat easy enough to look up distinctive markings, armory marks, construction methods. But, I have zero idea how to learn more about this long rifle.

Honestly, I'm not even certain which components were replaced and which were original - but, I'm hoping to learn.

Where does one start to try to learn more about such things? It's not fancy or beautifully adorned with hand engraved brass. But, even for such a modest piece, where would you suggest I start to try to learn as much as possible from it? Are there specific online resources you would suggest? Has anything I said already triggered some information that might tell you something? Should I begin be looking for numbering's it's markings on the metal portions of the rifle?

Thank you for any help you could suggest. If this gun cane through the line I believe it did- my ancestor mustered in at Chattanooga and was under Bedford Forrest.

 

[UCVRelics]

Welcome. We will need some photos in order to help.

 

[lelliott19]

Hello @Georgia and welcome to CivilWarTalk the BEST place on the internet for Civil War discussion! Happy to have you aboard. We have lots of firearms guys here who know an awful lot about all kinds of 19th century arms. If you will post some pictures I feel sure they will be able to identify it and tell you which parts have been replaced and lots more info that you maybe didn't even know was possible to know! Just click the little photo symbol up in the tool bar above your post and youll be able to attach images. Ill warn you in advance, they LOVE pictures and will want LOTS of them - up close and showing the entire gun.

Here's where to find the picture icon

 

[mofederal]

Hello and welcome to the CivilWarTalk from Southeast Missouri. Photos are a must for identification of any firearm.

 

[Georgia]

Sorry for the delay, but here are some photos. Mainly, I'm trying to decide if the story could be true that this could have been a traced weapon for the era. I'm going to love it no matter what is said.
I remember Daddy "working" on it and him fondly reliving his childhood playing with it.
( As an aside,I'm working my way through boxes of all sorts of materials from Daddy's side of the family and I just found Copies of mustering in papers from Rice's Battalion of Columbus, MS for one of my great grandfathers.)

If Daddy is having a good day, he may can tell me which of the brothers/family members supposedly brought this back.

I'm not up on gun photography so please let me know if something different is needed. And, any info which can be shared would be most appreciated.

 

[Booner]

Looking at the sideplate on the lock and the bolster on the barrel, at one time the rifle was a flintlock. Many of the original screws look to have been replaced with what look like wood screws (the tang on the breach plug, for example). The front portion of the brass trigger guard doesn't appear to be inletted into the stock, nor does it follow the curvature of the stock, and since the rest of the rifle is iron mounted, perhaps that was a later addition from an iron trigger guard?

 

[Georgia]

Members, I realize this isn't a fine shooting piece. I realize it's a mishmash of bits and pieces.
Please be confident that your comments won't offend me as I realize this is a family memento and not something exquisite for a collector.

Would this be considered a long Kentucky rifle?

Is what I was told about the kerosene thread trick to create tiger maple true?

I don't remember other than the dowel that's Daddy stained to match the wood of the stock which pieces look original and which were replaced. Do the dark metal pieces look original and the brass replaced? I just remember a catalog that Daddy ordered in pieces from- but, being so young, I can't recall which pieces he ordered.

I'm going to start following the family men who fought and try to determine if their service could possibly have taken them through Kentucky. But, if this rifle isn't from Kentucky, that's fine too. Just interested in adding to the story so this information can be passed along to the next person to enjoy this piece.

With homes we've restored and items we own, I believe we're only the current caretakers and these places/items need to be enjoyed, cared for and protected until they are passed to the next generation.

This isn't an exciting find, based upon other weapons of the era. But, to me it's priceless. I just want to get as much info together as possible.

( Sadly, I've discerned a short sword and a two part belt buckle in Daddy's collection are not real- these were the only two items I asked to have as my sister took all the others. But, I'm fine with this. I was with Momma and Daddy in Commerce,GA in the late 1970's at an estate sale. Momma saw the buckle, didn't know if it was real or not but picked up the box lit for $5. So, real or not, it's a memory I cherish.
The Palmetto Armory piece Daddy got he bought at an Auction which oddly enough took place outside of Commerce, GA. (Normally we didn't go to auctions there so the fact both pieces were from there I find humorous.)

Momma had passed away and Daddy was finding solace in attending auctions as he and Momma both enjoyed them. I had come down to see him and we drove over to Commerce. I coarcged him on the proper auction ways as Momma had taught me.
1) look things over before the auction begins
2) show no outward emotion during the preview or bidding
3) set a top limit in price before the item comes up and stick to this so you don't get caught up in the bidding and pay too much
Well, that all went out the window as Daddy got into what is commonly called in my neck of the woods ( pardon me) as a "pissing match" with another gentleman. The testosterone levels were high that night.
I angered Daddy by questioning if the piece was true. We didn't have the same years of attending this auction house and I'm a bit of a realist and skeptic as Momma taught me to question pieces and look for anything out of the norm.
Daddy meant to get this short sword come hell or high water and he got it. I'm scared to think of what he paid for it as I blocked that part of the story from my memory.

Nothing on the sword is correct. Casting is iffy, construction isn't true. Stamped information isn't the correct typeset, "hand engraved" eagle on the handle isn't right. And, that all important date of 1863 emblazoned so grandly on the blade.
But, you know, again, it doesn't matter to me. It's a good reminder of the Momma rules of attending an auction. ( My first memory of life is at an auction with Momma on the Atlanta Highway at Mr. Kitchline's place. I think I was around 10 before I realized the small glass Listerine bottle of amber liquid he kept near him on the table wasn't Listerine at all. It was there I learned of the smell of a not so expensive cigar and later in the night there'd be a haze near the low ceiling from the combined smoke. But, if you stayed past 10 pm, and the Listerine gargle Bottle ( which never was spat out after being administered) became almost empty, one could get some really amazing deals.

So, like most collectors, Daddy learned and moved onward. His books of the war and by those who fought are amazing. His printed collection is one he lovingly curated and improved upon by as he would replace editions with older and older copies and then moved toward obtaining signed first editions.
But, with weapons, guns, Bowie knives, dueling pistols, short swords, belt buckles, leather canteens....I'm not so sure that Daddy's interest and trust in the seller may be seen as his undoing. But, whatever he missed in all the metal bits, he more than made up for in other areas of his collection.

So, please don't worry that you'll hurt my feelings concerning this rifle. I understand enough to know it isn't an "exciting piece" to most. But, whatever I can learn from it, I'd like to so please do share any specifics with me that you may have. Is the jut out carved into the stock something that could tell more about the dominant hand of the owner? Or, does that not matter? ( I am and come from a long line of Southpaws.)
There's no patch box on the piece. Wouldn't that mean it wasn't as "fine" as a gun which would have one built in? What sort of ammunition would a gun like this use? Would you carry a patch box and powder with you? This was supposedly a farm gun traded with a farmer to be brought back for farm use. I wonder if my ancestor didn't want the reminder of any battles or lives taken by the issued gun and decided it was best to trade it? Just so many questions.
Do hope that some here will be able to help me fill in the blanks-
Thank you-

 

[Georgia]

Looking at the sideplate on the lock and the bolster on the barrel, at one timen then rifle was a flintlock. And many of the original screws look to have been replaced with what look like wood screws (the tang on the breach plug, for example). The front portion of the brass trigger guard doesn't appear to be inletted into the stock, and it doesn't follow the curvature of the stock, and since the rest of the rifle is iron mounted, perhaps that was a later addition.

Hi Booner,
Thanks so much! I'm going to need to get a basic anatomy of a rifle online to follow exactly what you're sharing.
But, all you're saying sound more than plausible since a great uncle made the gun unable to be fired when the cousins were playing with it in the late 30's early 40's.
So, you believe the brass is what my Daddy most likely replaced back in the 1970's? It's a fit on the surface, but to a true gun owner it's not at all what would've been there? Or, could it have been brass originally and the fit is just really, really off?

Thanks so much for your reply. Flintlock, huh? Cool!

 

[Kurt G]

It also lacks a nose cap that would be typical for a "Kentucky" rifle . I think it may be what would be called a "mountain rifle" , typical of backwoods areas of Tennessee and Kentucky . They were based on the "Kentucky" style but were less ornate and generally had iron mountings instead of brass. Any idea what caliber it is ?

 

[Georgia]

It also lacks a nose cap that would be typical for a "Kentucky" rifle . I think it may be what would be called a "mountain rifle" , typical of backwoods areas of Tennessee and Kentucky . They were based on the "Kentucky" style but were less ornate and generally had iron mountings instead of brass. Any idea what caliber it is ?

Kurt, is there a way I can determine this caliber by measuring the rifle bore? Lordy, I'm out of my comfort zone here. Is that even the correct verbiage?

If there's a way one could share how to go about finding this out, I'll gladly do what I can to get the answer.
Is there an online location which would give basic how tos to determine the caliber?

Mountain rifle makes more sense to me. I've always questioned the Kentucky lineage given to the rifle. I may find that family members were, indeed, in that area but I know one that mustered in at Chattanooga so TN and getting back to North Alabama makes a good bit of sense.

 

[Kurt G]

You can measure the bore in fractions of an inch . I assume it is rifled . Measure as best you can across the narrowest part of the bore ( the "lands") in fractions of an inch and then divide . For example , if the measurement is 7/16ths , divide 7 by 16 and you'll get .44 , which would be the caliber . This is the easiest way if you don't have a micrometer , etc. and will get you a ball park figure .

 

[Georgia]

You can measure the bore in fractions of an inch . I assume it is rifled . Measure as best you can across the narrowest part of the bore ( the "lands") in fractions of an inch and then divide . For example , if the measurement is 7/16ths , divide 7 by 16 and you'll get .44 , which would be the caliber . This is the easiest way if you don't have a micrometer , etc. and will get you a ball park figure .

Will gather up the proper equipment and see what I can figure out. Thank you- will reply a bit later in the day as laundry and kitchen duties are calling.

 

[Kurt G]

BTW has anyone checked to make sure it's not loaded ?

 

[Georgia]

BTW has anyone checked to make sure it's not loaded ?

I was under the impression the firing mechanism had been completely removed back in the late 1930's- so I don't believe this rifle is in any condition to actually fire at this point.
This being said, I will be cautious as I try to get the correct measurements to be able to determine the caliber.

 

[Kurt G]

It sh

I was under the impression the firing mechanism had been completely removed back in the late 1930's- so I don't believe this rifle is in any condition to actually fire at this point.
This being said, I will be cautious as I try to get the correct measurements to be able to determine the caliber.

It shouldn't be a big problem , but having a firearm with a possible loaded barrel is never a good idea .You might be able to check this just using the ramrod . Measure the length of the barrel from the nipple to the muzzle. Let's say it's 40". Use the ramrod or another long rod and if you can push it 40" down the barrel or a little farther you should be fine .

 

[Package4]

Members, I realize this isn't a fine shooting piece. I realize it's a mishmash of bits and pieces.
Please be confident that your comments won't offend me as I realize this is a family memento and not something exquisite for a collector.

Would this be considered a long Kentucky rifle?

Is what I was told about the kerosene thread trick to create tiger maple true?

I don't remember other than the dowel that's Daddy stained to match the wood of the stock which pieces look original and which were replaced. Do the dark metal pieces look original and the brass replaced? I just remember a catalog that Daddy ordered in pieces from- but, being so young, I can't recall which pieces he ordered.

I'm going to start following the family men who fought and try to determine if their service could possibly have taken them through Kentucky. But, if this rifle isn't from Kentucky, that's fine too. Just interested in adding to the story so this information can be passed along to the next person to enjoy this piece.

With homes we've restored and items we own, I believe we're only the current caretakers and these places/items need to be enjoyed, cared for and protected until they are passed to the next generation.

This isn't an exciting find, based upon other weapons of the era. But, to me it's priceless. I just want to get as much info together as possible.

( Sadly, I've discerned a short sword and a two part belt buckle in Daddy's collection are not real- these were the only two items I asked to have as my sister took all the others. But, I'm fine with this. I was with Momma and Daddy in Commerce,GA in the late 1970's at an estate sale. Momma saw the buckle, didn't know if it was real or not but picked up the box lit for $5. So, real or not, it's a memory I cherish.
The Palmetto Armory piece Daddy got he bought at an Auction which oddly enough took place outside of Commerce, GA. (Normally we didn't go to auctions there so the fact both pieces were from there I find humorous.)

Momma had passed away and Daddy was finding solace in attending auctions as he and Momma both enjoyed them. I had come down to see him and we drove over to Commerce. I coarcged him on the proper auction ways as Momma had taught me.
1) look things over before the auction begins
2) show no outward emotion during the preview or bidding
3) set a top limit in price before the item comes up and stick to this so you don't get caught up in the bidding and pay too much
Well, that all went out the window as Daddy got into what is commonly called in my neck of the woods ( pardon me) as a "pissing match" with another gentleman. The testosterone levels were high that night.
I angered Daddy by questioning if the piece was true. We didn't have the same years of attending this auction house and I'm a bit of a realist and skeptic as Momma taught me to question pieces and look for anything out of the norm.
Daddy meant to get this short sword come hell or high water and he got it. I'm scared to think of what he paid for it as I blocked that part of the story from my memory.

Nothing on the sword is correct. Casting is iffy, construction isn't true. Stamped information isn't the correct typeset, "hand engraved" eagle on the handle isn't right. And, that all important date of 1863 emblazoned so grandly on the blade.
But, you know, again, it doesn't matter to me. It's a good reminder of the Momma rules of attending an auction. ( My first memory of life is at an auction with Momma on the Atlanta Highway at Mr. Kitchline's place. I think I was around 10 before I realized the small glass Listerine bottle of amber liquid he kept near him on the table wasn't Listerine at all. It was there I learned of the smell of a not so expensive cigar and later in the night there'd be a haze near the low ceiling from the combined smoke. But, if you stayed past 10 pm, and the Listerine gargle Bottle ( which never was spat out after being administered) became almost empty, one could get some really amazing deals.

So, like most collectors, Daddy learned and moved onward. His books of the war and by those who fought are amazing. His printed collection is one he lovingly curated and improved upon by as he would replace editions with older and older copies and then moved toward obtaining signed first editions.
But, with weapons, guns, Bowie knives, dueling pistols, short swords, belt buckles, leather canteens....I'm not so sure that Daddy's interest and trust in the seller may be seen as his undoing. But, whatever he missed in all the metal bits, he more than made up for in other areas of his collection.

So, please don't worry that you'll hurt my feelings concerning this rifle. I understand enough to know it isn't an "exciting piece" to most. But, whatever I can learn from it, I'd like to so please do share any specifics with me that you may have. Is the jut out carved into the stock something that could tell more about the dominant hand of the owner? Or, does that not matter? ( I am and come from a long line of Southpaws.)
There's no patch box on the piece. Wouldn't that mean it wasn't as "fine" as a gun which would have one built in? What sort of ammunition would a gun like this use? Would you carry a patch box and powder with you? This was supposedly a farm gun traded with a farmer to be brought back for farm use. I wonder if my ancestor didn't want the reminder of any battles or lives taken by the issued gun and decided it was best to trade it? Just so many questions.
Do hope that some here will be able to help me fill in the blanks-
Thank you-

Welcome from Maryland! I would imagine that just removing the trigger or hammer would have rendered the piece safe from young miscreants, not sure why it appears to missing so many original screws and parts.

 

[Booner]

Hi Booner,
Thanks so much! I'm going to need to get a basic anatomy of a rifle online to follow exactly what you're sharing.
But, all you're saying sound more than plausible since a great uncle made the gun unable to be fired when the cousins were playing with it in the late 30's early 40's.
So, you believe the brass is what my Daddy most likely replaced back in the 1970's? It's a fit on the surface, but to a true gun owner it's not at all what would've been there? Or, could it have been brass originally and the fit is just really, really off?

Thanks so much for your reply. Flintlock, huh? Cool!

After another look at the pictures of the trigger guard, I do think it was a later addition. It appears that the rear of the trigger guard has a screw through it attaching it to the stock--- that's not how it was done. On the front and rear of the trigger guard, on it's underside were tabs that were in-letted into the stock, and then the stock and tab on the trigger guard would be drilled and pinned, holding the trigger guard to the stock. I can see that something like that was attempted to the front of the guard, and the pin used there is huge, but the trigger guard is not in-letted into the stock, but looks like it rides on top of the stock. Again, that's not how it was usually done. So, due to my observations, and what you said about relatives making some changes to the gun, I'd say the trigger guard is a latter addition.
The butt stock is another possible later addition. Most rifles would have a curvature cut in the wood at the butt end, and the metal butt stock or butt plate would follow that curvature. In your case, the butt plate is square to the stock and only a slight curve where it meets the top of the protrusion of the butt plate. The butt plates are curved so that it matched the curvature of the shooter's shoulder, so it reduces the felt recoil when a shot was fired over a larger area of the shoulder. In your case, the butt plate doesn't have this curvature, so unless it's a small caliber rifle, it may not have been a pleasant gun to fire due to the felt recoil. Perhaps the butt of the rifle was shortened and a new butt plate was added to fit the one of the owners better? Also, the gun has an iron toe piece, the long rectangular metal part on the underside of the butt stock next to the brass butt stock piece, (it's been bent a little), and I find it interesting that with the exception of the brass trigger guard and butt stock, the rest of the gun is iron mounted. This leads me to believe the brass furniture were not part of the original gun.

You asked if this was a Kentucky Rifle; That's sort of a generic term for rifles built in Pennsylvania just prior to the revolution until the end of the 18th century. These rifles were built according certain "schools" which shared certain characteristics of how the gun looked, (their architecture). Some were very ornate; a lot of brass patch boxes and other fittings along with ornate wood carving, and these guns, due to their cost, were purchased by someone as more a show of their wealth rather than something that would get everyday use. Because these ornate rifles were not used as much, they have lasted and have been passed down through the years to the point where everyone thinks that that's what a Kentucky Rifle should look like. The other more common but less ornate guns, (but they shared the same characteristics of the ornate rifles), the "working rifles" were the gun that the long hunter bought and took with him when he went to Kentucky on his months-long hunting expedition. Since these guns were used so hard, and often modified over time, (as locks changed from flint to percussion, for example), a lot of them were simply used up, and finally discarded over time as newer gun technology became available. Other areas of the country had their own "schools" of gun making such as Virginia and Tennessee where guns made in these areas had their own characteristic look to them.

I think what you have is an example of a 'working man's" gun. The stock from behind the breach to the butt has a certain "Late Lancaster" look to me, but by no means am I any kind of an authority on theses guns; I'm more of a somewhat informed student so take everything I say with reservations. But I'm pretty sure from all of the holes in the lock plate and the bolster added to the barrel, when your gun was new it was a flintlock, and was converted at sometime to percussion. Percussion rifles became readily available in the late 1830-1840 time period, so we know your gun, in it's original condition was made prior to the 1830's. Depending on it's caliber, we might be able to surmise how much earlier than the 1830's as the calibers of common rifles tended to get smaller to reflect the lack of bigger game once Kentucky was settled. The whole gun could have been made, "lock, stock, and barrel," by one gunsmith, or someone could have ordered those parts from others and assembled and sold the competed gun. I tend to think your gun was made in this later way. I say this because the mortice around the lock is huge, and to my eye looks like a much bigger lock could have been fitted to the stock. I would think a gunsmith would have removed more wood in that area so the small lock "fit" better ("to the eye") in that space. I do see some writing on the lock plate, but that could simply be the company who made the lock. There could be a name somewhere on the barrel (or under the barrel) which could be the makers name, or simple the name of the barrel maker. I see where the breach tang is broken and looks like the barrel has moved forward in the stock.
Given all I've said, I think your gun was built in the trans-mountain region of western Va, Tn, or Ga, area between 1800-1820.
A very good website which you should give a look at is the American Long Rifle Organization.
their site--->>> https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php
So much of what I've learned about these old guns I learned on this site.

You have a very interesting family heirloom; If it could only talk!

 

[Package4]

Hi,
First post here, and I'm about to let y'all all in on the fact that I'm way out of my comfort level.
But, I'm hoping to begin to unravel a family story that involves a long rifle.

The family story was told as follows: My great Grandfather was on his way coming back home after the end of the Civil War. He went through Kentucky ( gotta see where he saw action to even authenticate this information) and traded his Army issued rifle to a farmer for a long rifle he felt would be more helpful to him on the family farm.
Fast forward to the late 1930's-1940's and my Daddy remembers he and his cousins playing WWII and finding the rifle in a corn crib on his grandfather's farm. A concerned uncle took out the "firing parts" so no one had to worry the cousins would shoot each other and let the boys play with it. This rifle and the seed pods off a magnolia- once you snap off the stem and lob them made decent hand grenades for many battles.

Again, a jump forward to the mid 1970's and Daddy got what was left of the rifle and replaced the missing parts so it was complete enough to be displayed over the fireplace in our den.

Daddy has now passed the Franken-rifle on to me. I love it because I remember him telling me about it and working on getting it somewhat put together. He explained it was a poor man's tiger maple made by wrapping a kerosene soaked string around the stock and lighting it on fire.
With other artifacts or pseudo-artifacts from the Civil War, it's somewhat easy enough to look up distinctive markings, armory marks, construction methods. But, I have zero idea how to learn more about this long rifle.

Honestly, I'm not even certain which components were replaced and which were original - but, I'm hoping to learn.

Where does one start to try to learn more about such things? It's not fancy or beautifully adorned with hand engraved brass. But, even for such a modest piece, where would you suggest I start to try to learn as much as possible from it? Are there specific online resources you would suggest? Has anything I said already triggered some information that might tell you something? Should I begin be looking for numbering's it's markings on the metal portions of the rifle?

Thank you for any help you could suggest. If this gun cane through the line I believe it did- my ancestor mustered in at Chattanooga and was under Bedford Forrest.

Keep in mind that Forrest surrendered his force and as such agreed, to have the men surrender their arms as well. Maybe he traded something else for this piece.

 

[Georgia]

After another look at the pictures of the trigger guard, I do think it was a later addition. It appears that the rear of the trigger guard has a screw through it attaching it to the stock--- that's not how it was done. On the front and rear of the trigger guard, on it's underside were tabs that were in-letted into the stock, and then the stock and tab on the trigger guard would be drilled and pinned, holding the trigger guard to the stock. I can see that something like that was attempted to the front of the guard, and the pin used there is huge, but the trigger guard is not in-letted into the stock, but looks like it rides on top of the stock. Again, that's not how it was usually done. So, due to my observations, and what you said about relatives making some changes to the gun, I'd say the trigger guard is a latter addition.
The butt stock is another possible later addition. Most rifles would have a curvature cut in the wood at the butt end, and the metal butt stock or butt plate would follow that curvature. In your case, the butt plate is square to the stock and only a slight curve where it meets the top of the protrusion of the butt plate. The butt plates are curved so that it matched the curvature of the shooter's shoulder, so it reduces the felt recoil when a shot was fired over a larger area of the shoulder. In your case, the butt plate doesn't have this curvature, so unless it's a small caliber rifle, it may not have been a pleasant gun to fire due to the felt recoil. Perhaps the butt of the rifle was shortened and a new butt plate was added to fit the one of the owners better? Also, the gun has an iron toe piece, the long rectangular metal part on the underside of the butt stock next to the brass butt stock piece, (it's been bent a little), and I find it interesting that with the exception of the brass trigger guard and butt stock, the rest of the gun is iron mounted. This leads me to believe the brass furniture were not part of the original gun.

You asked if this was a Kentucky Rifle; That's sort of a generic term for rifles built in Pennsylvania just prior to the revolution until the end of the 18th century. These rifles were built according certain "schools" which shared certain characteristics of how the gun looked, (their architecture). Some were very ornate; a lot of brass patch boxes and other fittings along with ornate wood carving, and these guns, due to their cost, were purchased by someone as more a show of their wealth rather than something that would get everyday use. Because these ornate rifles were not used as much, they have lasted and have been passed down through the years to the point where everyone thinks that that's what a Kentucky Rifle should look like. The other more common but less ornate guns, (but they shared the same characteristics of the ornate rifles), the "working rifles" were the gun that the long hunter bought and took with him when he went to Kentucky on his months-long hunting expedition. Since these guns were used so hard, and often modified over time, (as locks changed from flint to percussion, for example), a lot of them were simply used up, and finally discarded over time as newer gun technology became available. Other areas of the country had their own "schools" of gun making such as Virginia and Tennessee where guns made in these areas had their own characteristic look to them.

I think what you have is an example of a 'working man's" gun. The stock from behind the breach to the butt has a certain "Late Lancaster" look to me, but by no means am I any kind of an authority on theses guns; I'm more of a somewhat informed student so take everything I say with reservations. But I'm pretty sure from all of the holes in the lock plate and the bolster added to the barrel, when your gun was new it was a flintlock, and was converted at sometime to percussion. Percussion rifles became readily available in the late 1830-1840 time period, so we know your gun, in it's original condition was made prior to the 1830's. Depending on it's caliber, we might be able to surmise how much earlier than the 1830's as the calibers of common rifles tended to get smaller to reflect the lack of bigger game once Kentucky was settled. The whole gun could have been made, "lock, stock, and barrel," by one gunsmith, or someone could have ordered those parts from others and assembled and sold the competed gun. I tend to think your gun was made in this later way. I say this because the mortice around the lock is huge, and to my eye looks like a much bigger lock could have been fitted to the stock. I would think a gunsmith would have removed more wood in that area so the small lock "fit" better ("to the eye") in that space. I do see some writing on the lock plate, but that could simply be the company who made the lock. There could be a name somewhere on the barrel (or under the barrel) which could be the makers name, or simple the name of the barrel maker. I see where the breach tang is broken and looks like the barrel has moved forward in the stock.
Given all I've said, I think your gun was built in the trans-mountain region of western Va, Tn, or Ga, area between 1800-1820.
A very good website which you should give a look at is the American Long Rifle Organization.
their site--->>> https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php
So much of what I've learned about these old guns I learned on this site.

You have a very interesting family heirloom; If it could only talk!

Thank you so much for such an informative post. Yes, I have reason to believe that Daddy ordered the brass components from a mail order catalog in the 1970's. I'm sure he did the best he could to "finish it out" so it could be at least hung in the house and appreciated.
I'm not sure where he ordered these pieces from as I was fairly young at the time.
I'm hoping to get some info from the gun and do some measuring later today to hopefully determine the caliber.

As the story went, my ancestor traded a farmer his Army issue rifle for this as he felt this gun would be more helpful on the Farm in Alabama. As I have no clue as to what would make one style of gun more "helpful" than another I've always wondered if my ancestor chose to trade guns as he wanted "to put down" the gun he had used in service as it would be a reminder of battle. Pure female speculation here. And, may be completely unfounded - but, as someone uneducated on various rifles, I'd have expected the Army issued gun would've been equally or more helpful than a flint lock which had been modified. But, I'm hoping someone here could possibly explain if there's any validity to my thought process or not.

I'll take some time and do some measuring and add more info and photos in a bit.
Again, thank you for your insights as they are most appreciated.

 

[Georgia]

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It shouldn't be a big problem , but having a firearm with a possible loaded barrel is never a good idea .You might be able to check this just using the ramrod . Measure the length of the barrel from the nipple to the muzzle. Let's say it's 40". Use the ramrod or another long rod and if you can push it 40" down the barrel or a little farther you should be fine .

Technically, I don't have the ramrod- just a wooden dowel that Daddy put in its place. But, I'll measure and give it a go just to be on the safe side.