Worst Regimental Performances

[Sheltowee]

Just finished Hafendorfer's text on the Battle of Richmond Ky. Throughout the book, there are numerous recounts of how pathetic were the actions of the 7th Kentucky Cavalry (Metcalfes). Sparing details- but these troopers did not represent well, at all.

Trying to tread lightly here, as not to offend more sensitive members. But I am curious about examples of horrific performance by regiments in some particular battle. Any examples of poor conduct that really stand out?

I know we have the luxury of second-guessing men involved in life and death struggles- maybe not fair. Still, I am sure there are numerous examples of regiments that turned in disastrous efforts (or none at all). Were these units ever able to wipe away the tarnish, at some later battle? Please share...

 

[LSBusch]

Interesting question. I'm sure there were many instances of poor performance by some regiments, but whether anyone was or is willing to say so publicly is another question. I found criticisms of commanders in the research for my book, but none of regiments.

 

[Belfoured]

Just finished Hafendorfer's text on the Battle of Richmond Ky. Throughout the book, there are numerous recounts of how pathetic were the actions of the 7th Kentucky Cavalry (Metcalfes). Sparing details- but these troopers did not represent well, at all.

Trying to tread lightly here, as not to offend more sensitive members. But I am curious about examples of horrific performance by regiments in some particular battle. Any examples of poor conduct that really stand out?

I know we have the luxury of second-guessing men involved in life and death struggles- maybe not fair. Still, I am sure there are numerous examples of regiments that turned in disastrous efforts (or none at all). Were these units ever able to wipe away the tarnish, at some later battle? Please share...

It's a legitimate inquiry and no need for you to "tread lightly". There were units that performed poorly - for all sorts of reasons, including lack of training, poor tactics, poor weapons, bad officers, etc. And even the good units had their share of shirkers, cowards and guys who simply could not be trusted. It's generally something you won't be able to corroborate in the OR, because nobody was likely to submit an AAR that admitted his unit bolted.

 

[Reconstructed Rebel]

There were units that performed poorly - for all sorts of reasons, including lack of training, poor tactics, poor weapons, bad officers, etc.

I also have to believe that as time went on and green troops became veterans and bad officers resigned or were replaced, that regiments that had embarrassed themselves early on became steadier under fire. Then there are circumstances under which any troops could bolt - like being attacked from the rear or the flank, etc.

 

[Gary Morgan]

Not a regiment, and I don't know a lot of details, but POW Fred James wrote in Feb, 1864 about a large group of 9th Vermont guys joining him at Salisbury Prison, having been captured just 4 hours after they were issued their guns. If that's not a record, it has to be close --

When we came to this place we (18 of us) had this upper floor to ourselves, but as "fresh fish" have been sent here from time to time, we have been obliged to give up some of our surplus room to luckless newcomers, nearly all of whom belong to the Vermont 9th regiment. Most of them are new recruits, & had not had their guns in their hand four hours before they were captured. They arrived here on the afternoon of the 15th inst. There are 70 men & one Lieutenant. Four prisoners who managed to escape from the cars while being conveyed from Richmond, to Americus, Ga. but were retaken before they reached our lines, have also been added to our number. One of them was from the same room in which we were confined in Richmond.

 

[Cavalier]

You might be interested in the "Harper's Ferry Cowards". Green troops who were surrendered at Harper's Ferry in 1862, though no fault of their's really, paroled and ended up in the fortifications of D. C., where they were considered by some to be "the worse troops in the army", they seem to have redeemed their reputation at Gettysburg.

It appears that General Alexander B.Hays may have had some thingto do with their improvement.

John

 

[Belfoured]

I also have to believe that as time went on and green troops became veterans and bad officers resigned or were replaced, that regiments that had embarrassed themselves early on became steadier under fire. Then there are circumstances under which any troops could bolt - like being attacked from the rear or the flank, etc.

No question. It probably helps to focus on units that didn't improve and weren't repeated victims of bad tactics/decisions by CO's. There are a few regiments in the Union XI Corps that took off at Chancellorsville and again at Gettysburg after they were put in bad situations by command stupidity. After going west as part of the new XX Corps, they did fine in the Atlanta Campaign.

 

[Belfoured]

You might be interested in the "Harper's Ferry Cowards". Green troops who were surrendered at Harper's Ferry in 1862, though no fault of their's really, paroled and ended up in the fortifications of D. C., where they were considered by some to be "the worse troops in the army", they seem to have redeemed their reputation at Gettysburg.

It appears that General Alexander B.Hays may have had some thingto do with their improvement.

John

Hays was not exactly a "player's coach" in the area of discipline. But he was effective and the "players" came to respect him.

 

[Cavalier]

@Belfoured When reading about Hays I had that impression too. I have seen similar opinions about Hood and Gibbon, and a few others that I can't remember off hand. I don't think military discipline initially comes easy though, especially to people raised in a democracy. But maybe that's just me.

John

 

[Belfoured]

@Belfoured When reading about Hays I had that impression too. I have seen similar opinions about Hood and Gibbon, and a few others that I can't remember off hand. I don't think military discipline initially comes easy though, especially to people raised in a democracy. But maybe that's just me.

John

@Cavalier:
A similar thing happened when Emory Upton took command of the 121st NY in late 1862. He kicked some backsides and the regiment became a formidable fighting force. They also came to revere him. I analogize it to my hockey experience. A coach who takes over an undisciplined team and turns it into a winner by being both tough and fair is somebody who will command personal loyalty. And I think you're right about a democracy and the military. Limiting your individual "freedom"/"rights" for the benefit of the "team" doesn't come easy to everybody.

 

[Sheltowee]

@Cavalier:
A similar thing happened when Emory Upton took command of the 121st NY in late 1862. He kicked some backsides and the regiment became a formidable fighting force. They also came to revere him. I analogize it to my hockey experience. A coach who takes over an undisciplined team and turns it into a winner by being both tough and fair is somebody who will command personal loyalty. And I think you're right about a democracy and the military. Limiting your individual "freedom"/"rights" for the benefit of the "team" doesn't come easy to everybody.

A couple of good examples from yourself and Cavalier. I need to check out their histories.
As for the 7th Kentucky- they did continue their service until deactivated at Nashville in '65. I just wonder if their reputation ever improved, after the debacle at Richmond.
Thanks for the comments!

 

[rerobins]

Some of the most disastrous performances might surely include certain confederate regiments who lost their nerve at missionary ridge.

 

[John Taylor]

Had a gguncle in the Moccasin Rangers (CS). Became so odious to everyone they had to disband.

 

[Sheltowee]

Had a gguncle in the Moccasin Rangers (CS). Became so odious to everyone they had to disband.

Had no knowledge of the Mocassin Rangers. Will need to research further- thanks.

 

[Coonewah Creek]

Ben Butler scapegoated the 7th Vermont for the near-run Federal fiasco at Baton Rouge in August 1862. He refused to allow them to inscribe Baton Rouge as a battle honor on their colors, among other things. Apparently, a Board of Inquiry later exonerated the regiment of any wrongdoing...

https://vermonthistory.org/journal/72/vt721_205.pdf

 

[Sheltowee]

Excellent article- thanks for sharing. Was there any worse villain than Beast Butler?

 

[Coonewah Creek]

I vaguely recalled an incident with the 52nd Tennessee at Shiloh and finally located this information. I believe they were involved in the fight with the 54th Ohio crossing Spain Branch early the first day...

"At Shiloh, April 6-7, 1862, the 52nd was engaged as a part of Brigadier General Jamees R. Chalmers' Brigade of Brigadier General J. M. Withers' Division. General Chalmers, in his report of the engagement, said "The 52nd broke and fled in most shameful confusion. After repeated efforts to rally it, this regiment was ordered out of the lines, where it remained during the balance of the engagement, with the exception of two companies, Captains J. A. Russell, and A. N. Wilson, who, with their commands, fought gallantly in the ranks of the 5th Mississippi Regiment."" - From tngenweb.org

My personal opinion is that Chalmers used them as a scapegoat for his poor performance in command of the Brigade, but that's just me. They were raw troops after all and couldn't be expected to carry out complicated drill field commands under fire at that stage of their training.

 

[James N.]

... Trying to tread lightly here, as not to offend more sensitive members. But I am curious about examples of horrific performance by regiments in some particular battle. Any examples of poor conduct that really stand out?

Having just returned from last month's Antietam Muster one example immediately springs to mind, though arguably the fault was not with the regiment's officers or men but more circumstantial though no less pathetic nor deadly. At the follow-up Battle of Shepherdstown fought three days after the main Battle of Antietam the brand-new Philadelphia Corn Exchange Regiment crossed the Potomac and were positioned on the far right flank well away from the ford by which they had crossed. In the ensuing battle with the veterans of A. P. Hill's Confederate division the greenhorns discovered their equally brand-new Enfield rifles were defective and wouldn't fire! Being crowded back into a tiny riverbank salient, they lost access to the ford and were compelled to wade back under a hot fire across a narrow dam only wide enough for a single man abreast. Between two and three hundred men were lost as casualties killed, wounded, captured, or drowned, over half the entire Federal loss in the battle.

 

[danny]

I suspect you could select any one of the regiments in Brockenbrough's brigade at Gettysburg

 

[Cavalier]

James N. Do we know what the issue with the Enfields was? Just wondering.

John