Forrest Why Forrest was Great

[Booner]

I'm reading "The Battle of Brice's Crossroads" by Stewart Bennett and am at the point were the Federals are in mass retreat and the teamsters are cutting the horses loose from the wagons and setting them ( the wagons), on fire. Forrest wanted the wagons and their supplies and and shouted at his troops, " Don't you see the d__d Yanks are burning my wagons? Get off your horses and throw the burning (wagon) beds off!" The troopers dismounted and were throwing the beds off while one young lieutenant stood by and watched. Forrest saw this and yelled at him. asking why he wasn't helping. The lieutenant replied that he was an officer. "Forrest made after him with his sabre drawn, "I'll officer you," and no acrobat ever was quicker in a movement than our brave lieutenant in getting to the ground; and a full hand he made in upsetting the wagon beds."

I can only imagine how the enlisted men enjoyed how the officer was encouraged to help them in putting out the fire. It would appear that Forrest was feared (and respected?) enough by his own men that they would rather face a bullet from the Yanks that the wrath of Forrest.

rgds,
Booner

 

[jackt62]

Forrest was a natural leader who knew how to handle men without having to resort to rank alone. In modern corporate terms, this would translate to having a boss who gains respect and trust from subordinates by setting a personal example and empathizing with his employees, rather than demanding compliance simply by asserting a high office title.

 

[Tin cup]

I'd say folk need to read Work for Giants, The Campaign and Battle of Tupelo/Harrisburg Mississippi, June-July 1864 by Thomas E. Parson. Seems that was one situation that Forrest fans don't get around to talking about much. It wasn't one of Forrest's best performances.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1606352229/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

Kevin Dally

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

I'm hoping @diane can shed a little more on this "I'm an officer" fellow.

 

[Dave Wilma]

That's what Grant wrote.

 

[jackt62]

I'd say folk need to read Work for Giants, The Campaign and Battle of Tupelo/Harrisburg Mississippi, June-July 1864 by Thomas E. Parson. Seems that was one situation that Forrest fans don't get around to talking about much. It wasn't one of Forrest's best performances.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1606352229/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

Kevin Dally

It wasn't one of his best performances but wasn't Forrest operating under the command and orders of General Stephen Lee at Tupelo/Harrisburg?

 

[Tin cup]

It wasn't one of his best performances but wasn't Forrest operating under the command and orders of General Stephen Lee at Tupelo/Harrisburg?

Seems Forrest kind of relinquished command of everything to S. D. Lee. Forrest was suffering from boils, and I'm willing to bet he was in serious need of R & R! He was up against Gen. A.J. Smith, he was unique among the Union Generals.

Kevin Dally

 

[Patrick H]

I'm no Forrest expert, but I'd say he made it a practice to lead by example. On the few occasions when that philosophy failed him, he probably led by scaring the ever loving sxxt out of his subordinates. This is just my hunch. I could be wrong.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

I'm no Forrest expert, but I'd say he made it a practice to lead by example. On the few occasions when that philosophy failed him, he probably led by scaring the ever loving sxxt out of his subordinates. This is just my hunch. I could be wrong.

I think you're pretty much on target.

 

[diane]

I'm hoping @diane can shed a little more on this "I'm an officer" fellow.

Had to come into town today from the ceremonies - camping in the boonies ain't as easy as it used to be!

This is a funny story - Shelby Foote referred to this lieutenant as a 'grandee'. The boy didn't like Forrest one little bit and was the one who wrote his father regularly about the 'vulgarian' that was his general. Forrest had sent a message to save the wagons and the 'grandee' sent back word that they were burning. Forrest sent word to go save them. The lieutenant sent back word the wagons were burning. Forrest sent word to go save them. Third time the courier got the wagons are burning message and turned his horse right into 'Iron Grey' - King Philip, with Forrest sitting on him. He spake as in the foregoing OP and lo! the lieutenant did not bestir himself - he was an officer and there were peasants...er, troopers to put out the fire. Whereupon, Forrest snapped, "I'll officer YOU!" and slapped the little squirt right off his horse. The kid saw a few galaxies and most of the constellations before hitting the ground, and bounced up in a right helpful mood... This wasn't the first time Forrest had knocked some sense into the boy, and it turned out not to be the last. Same lieutenant at Hood's retreat was sitting in one of the boats while everybody, including Forrest, was trying to pole it across the dark, freezing Duck River. "Why aren't you helping?" Forrest asked. "I am an officer," came the reply with an aristocratic smirk that said as clearly as words 'if you weren't a cracker you'd know that'. SMACK!! The officer went flying out of the boat and into the river. Forrest fished him out. "Next time I'll just leave you there," he growled. Kid grabbed an oar real fast and did better work than anybody!

Forrest didn't take this kind of attitude very well at all. He was always ready to pitch in himself and he was a general! When they had to chop down trees for a bridge, Forrest pitched in because he was big and could help it go faster. If they had to unload a wagon to get it across a bridge safely, he was the first to grab an armload of whatever and trudge off with it. The wagons got stuck in a cold river and Forrest saw the guys couldn't get a pull on the lead mules to get them out - needed somebody his size - so he waded in up to his chest and started wrangling them. A burly corporal came up from the road and began to laugh loudly. "Look-a thar at them dam fools!" he chortled. "Ain't no man alive can get me to do that!" He was wrong. Forrest came stomping up out of the river, grabbed him by the shirtfront with one hand, yanked him clear off his feet and slung him into the water. "You can take my place!"

 

[Booner]

diane,
Thanks for your elaboration. I always enjoy your sharing of your knowledge of the General.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Had to come into town today from the ceremonies - camping in the boonies ain't as easy as it used to be!

This is a funny story - Shelby Foote referred to this lieutenant as a 'grandee'. The boy didn't like Forrest one little bit and was the one who wrote his father regularly about the 'vulgarian' that was his general. Forrest had sent a message to save the wagons and the 'grandee' sent back word that they were burning. Forrest sent word to go save them. The lieutenant sent back word the wagons were burning. Forrest sent word to go save them. Third time the courier got the wagons are burning message and turned his horse right into 'Iron Grey' - King Philip, with Forrest sitting on him. He spake as in the foregoing OP and lo! the lieutenant did not bestir himself - he was an officer and there were peasants...er, troopers to put out the fire. Whereupon, Forrest snapped, "I'll officer YOU!" and slapped the little squirt right off his horse. The kid saw a few galaxies and most of the constellations before hitting the ground, and bounced up in a right helpful mood... This wasn't the first time Forrest had knocked some sense into the boy, and it turned out not to be the last. Same lieutenant at Hood's retreat was sitting in one of the boats while everybody, including Forrest, was trying to pole it across the dark, freezing Duck River. "Why aren't you helping?" Forrest asked. "I am an officer," came the reply with an aristocratic smirk that said as clearly as words 'if you weren't a cracker you'd know that'. SMACK!! The officer went flying out of the boat and into the river. Forrest fished him out. "Next time I'll just leave you there," he growled. Kid grabbed an oar real fast and did better work than anybody!

Forrest didn't take this kind of attitude very well at all. He was always ready to pitch in himself and he was a general! When they had to chop down trees for a bridge, Forrest pitched in because he was big and could help it go faster. If they had to unload a wagon to get it across a bridge safely, he was the first to grab an armload of whatever and trudge off with it. The wagons got stuck in a cold river and Forrest saw the guys couldn't get a pull on the lead mules to get them out - needed somebody his size - so he waded in up to his chest and started wrangling them. A burly corporal came up from the road and began to laugh loudly. "Look-a thar at them dam fools!" he chortled. "Ain't no man alive can get me to do that!" He was wrong. Forrest came stomping up out of the river, grabbed him by the shirtfront with one hand, yanked him clear off his feet and slung him into the water. "You can take my place!"

Thanks diane !

I knew you could expound on this lil' Lieutenant .

 

[Patrick H]

Those are outstanding stories, Diane!

 

[rhettbutler1865]

Had to come into town today from the ceremonies - camping in the boonies ain't as easy as it used to be!

This is a funny story - Shelby Foote referred to this lieutenant as a 'grandee'. The boy didn't like Forrest one little bit and was the one who wrote his father regularly about the 'vulgarian' that was his general. Forrest had sent a message to save the wagons and the 'grandee' sent back word that they were burning. Forrest sent word to go save them. The lieutenant sent back word the wagons were burning. Forrest sent word to go save them. Third time the courier got the wagons are burning message and turned his horse right into 'Iron Grey' - King Philip, with Forrest sitting on him. He spake as in the foregoing OP and lo! the lieutenant did not bestir himself - he was an officer and there were peasants...er, troopers to put out the fire. Whereupon, Forrest snapped, "I'll officer YOU!" and slapped the little squirt right off his horse. The kid saw a few galaxies and most of the constellations before hitting the ground, and bounced up in a right helpful mood... This wasn't the first time Forrest had knocked some sense into the boy, and it turned out not to be the last. Same lieutenant at Hood's retreat was sitting in one of the boats while everybody, including Forrest, was trying to pole it across the dark, freezing Duck River. "Why aren't you helping?" Forrest asked. "I am an officer," came the reply with an aristocratic smirk that said as clearly as words 'if you weren't a cracker you'd know that'. SMACK!! The officer went flying out of the boat and into the river. Forrest fished him out. "Next time I'll just leave you there," he growled. Kid grabbed an oar real fast and did better work than anybody!

Forrest didn't take this kind of attitude very well at all. He was always ready to pitch in himself and he was a general! When they had to chop down trees for a bridge, Forrest pitched in because he was big and could help it go faster. If they had to unload a wagon to get it across a bridge safely, he was the first to grab an armload of whatever and trudge off with it. The wagons got stuck in a cold river and Forrest saw the guys couldn't get a pull on the lead mules to get them out - needed somebody his size - so he waded in up to his chest and started wrangling them. A burly corporal came up from the road and began to laugh loudly. "Look-a thar at them dam fools!" he chortled. "Ain't no man alive can get me to do that!" He was wrong. Forrest came stomping up out of the river, grabbed him by the shirtfront with one hand, yanked him clear off his feet and slung him into the water. "You can take my place!"

Thank you, diane! I loved it!

 

[Buckeye Bill]

Entering the army as a private and rising to the rank of Lt. General is mind boggling!

 

[jackt62]

Entering the army as a private and rising to the rank of Lt. General is mind boggling!

View attachment 76680

I think the other amazing thing is that someone of Forrest's ability actually had to enter the army as a private to begin with, unlike other officers who started off with commissions (even those like Forrest, without West Point pedigrees).

 

[Buckeye Bill]

I think the other amazing thing is that someone of Forrest's ability actually had to enter the army as a private to begin with, unlike other officers who started off with commissions (even those like Forrest, without West Point pedigrees).

I concur.....

 

[James N.]

I think the other amazing thing is that someone of Forrest's ability actually had to enter the army as a private to begin with, unlike other officers who started off with commissions (even those like Forrest, without West Point pedigrees).

That's misleading - At the beginning of the war there was a veritable race to the colors, with many rushing to prove their patriotism. Although many wealthy men like South Carolina's Wade Hampton sought to raise and even pay to equip units like his Hampton Legion (which example Forrest himself soon followed), there were also many who at least initially thought that showing they were willing and eager to fight, regardless of rank, was more important. Of course, once passions cooled, many like Forrest had second thoughts about how they may be most effective. Those like him and Turner Ashby gravitated by force of personality and admiration and respect of their fellows quickly to leadership positions.

 

[jackt62]

That's misleading - At the beginning of the war there was a veritable race to the colors, with many rushing to prove their patriotism. Although many wealthy men like South Carolina's Wade Hampton sought to raise and even pay to equip units like his Hampton Legion (which example Forrest himself soon followed), there were also many who at least initially thought that showing they were willing and eager to fight, regardless of rank, was more important. Of course, once passions cooled, many like Forrest had second thoughts about how they may be most effective. Those like him and Turner Ashby gravitated by force of personality and admiration and respect of their fellows quickly to leadership positions.

Well, it wasn't that Forrest was forced to join as a private, he did as many others, as you properly state, "race to the colors." I'm just thinking that Forrest's background, which did not include being part of the wealthy, aristocratic class of men such as Wade Hampton, did not provide him with the type of contacts with influential members of the political and social circles who had much say in conferring commisions at the start of the war.

 

[Tin cup]

Forrest DID learn from his mistakes...

Capt. Andrew McGregor was struggling with a captured caisson, which had stuck in the mud… Forrest, thinking the men were not working hard enough began to upbraid them.
"Who has charge here anyhow"? he blurted.
"I have, General" replied McGregor.
"Then why the hell don't you do something" shouted Forrest, proceeding to utter further emphatic utterances.
Capt. McGregor sprang up, "I'll not be cursed at by anybody, even a superior officer" he roared, and seizing a lighted torch, he rammed it violently into the caisson.

General Forrest seemed stuptified for a moment by the insanity of thrusting a lighted torch into a caisson full of powder, then clapped spurs to his horse and rode away as fast as he could, shouting a warning to the others. Reaching his staff, he asked: "What infernal lunatic is that just out of the asylum down here?" He came near blowing himself and me up with a whole caisson of powder!"

The caisson was empty!

He never cursed Capt. McGregor again!

Kevin Dally