Why does it enrage me that NY thought it could do without

[peteanddelmar]

The Union that protected it? And become a free city?

I don't know a lot about it so here's a thread to help me.

Why did they want out of the Union? Were they being forced to change their whole way of life? Or was it greed?

Would they have raised their own army?

Weren't they presumptious?

 

[K Hale]

Without having looked into the details, I'll hazard a guess that this scheme was the result of:

A) somebody pandering for votes
B) somebody looking to make money
C) somebody who was just flat stupid
D) all of the above.

 

[wilber6150]

Don't judge the city by the actions of a few politicans and money grubbers...The common man was stopping shipments of arms being sent South or enlisting in milita companies... But, also in the end many of these same supporters of NYC being a free city quickly changed their mind once the firing started...As I stated in the other thread over 100,000 men enlisted from NYC in the army and up to 50,000 joined the Navy...

 

[NedBaldwin]

The man pushing the idea was the mayor Fernando Wood who had said that "The South is our best customer. She pays the best prices and pays promptly." He has also been called the most corrupt mayor in the City's history.
Wood was also at odds with the state government.

 

[K Hale]

The man pushing the idea was the mayor Fernando Wood who had said that "The South is our best customer. She pays the best prices and pays promptly." He has also been called the most corrupt mayor in the City's history.
Wood was also at odds with the state government.

Looks like I nailed it with Option B.

 

[peteanddelmar]

Don't judge the city by the actions of a few politicans and money grubbers...The common man was stopping shipments of arms being sent South or enlisting in milita companies... But, also in the end many of these same supporters of NYC being a free city quickly changed their mind once the firing started...As I stated in the other thread over 100,000 men enlisted from NYC in the army and up to 50,000 joined the Navy...

So it wasn't really ever entertained by most folks? Good. I thought it was crazy. I had no idea that many New Yorkers joined the war effort.

 

[NedBaldwin]

....Were they being forced to change their whole way of life?

This had something to do with it also:

 

[NedBaldwin]

Plus, there were some shippers in NYC who were still involved in the slave trade.
See:

 

[NedBaldwin]

Plus, there were some shippers in NYC who were still involved in the slave trade.

Better link than the one about the Wanderer:
http://www.nytimes.com/1861/01/17/news/the-slave-trade-something-rotten-in-the-state-of-denmark.html

 

[peteanddelmar]

From my computer I cant reach wikipidea right now. Idk why.
I messed up your link somehow.

 

[NedBaldwin]

From my computer I cant reach wikipidea right now. Idk why.
I messed up your link somehow.

Ok. I sum up:
- merchants and manufacturers making big money from trade with south
- illegal slave trading operations that City officials turn blind eye to;
- rampant partisan neighborhood gang activity;
- corrupt (and very racists) Democratic politicians running city hall;
- Republican reformers in State Government force showdown with corrupt City police leading to riots in 1857

 

[leftyhunter]

Plus, there were some shippers in NYC who were still involved in the slave trade.
See:

I did not know that slave smuggling was almost openly done has late has 1858 with the authorities openly taking bribes. Obviously not much could be done to stop small fast boats bringing in small amounts of slaves from Cuba sinc slavery was legal in the Spanish Empire. I am just surprised that large vessels where involved.
Thanks
Leftyhunter

 

[peteanddelmar]

Ok. I sum up:
- merchants and manufacturers making big money from trade with south
- illegal slave trading operations that City officials turn blind eye to;
- rampant partisan neighborhood gang activity;
- corrupt (and very racists) Democratic politicians running city hall;
- Republican reformers in State Government force showdown with corrupt City police leading to riots in 1857

Thank you Ive learned a lot. Idk why but I was very mad at NYC!

 

[ole]

The Wanderer was built in New York, but it was Southern-owned when it made the voyage.

 

[Allie]

The whole point of the Wanderer is that it was an isolated incident. It's not representative of anything.

 

[NedBaldwin]

The whole point of the Wanderer is that it was an isolated incident. It's not representative of anything.

Ok, so my choice of link wasnt a good one for making the point.

I will put forth other:
http://ldhi.library.cofc.edu/exhibits/show/voyage-of-the-echo-the-trials/the-echo-slave-traders

 

[peteanddelmar]

Ok, Im not mad at civil war NYC anymore. Thanks

 

[Drew]

The man pushing the idea was the mayor Fernando Wood who had said that "The South is our best customer. She pays the best prices and pays promptly." He has also been called the most corrupt mayor in the City's history.
Wood was also at odds with the state government.

Just about every mayor in that City's history has been proclaimed, "most corrupt." Wood was not a very successful businessman before his ascension to City Hall, but he did do business with the South and recognized New York's financial interest in that region.

It's the middle of Saturday night and I'll have to brush up a bit on Mayor Wood and New York's reaction to secession, but yes, it was all about money.

 

[NedBaldwin]

Here is an article from the Continental Monthly of 1862:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18977/18977-h/18977-h.htm#THE_SLAVE-TRADE_IN_NEW_YORK

The 5th paragraph reads: "The city of New York has been until of late the principal port of the world for this infamous commerce" it also notes that slave dealers "contributed liberally to the treasuries of political organizations, and their bank accounts were largely depleted to carry elections in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Connecticut."

What changed "of late" was 'politics'.

In 1855 a ship captain was arrested and tried in New York for slave trading. President Buchanan pardoned him.

In 1861 a ship captain was arrested and tried in New York for slave trading. Lincoln was asked to pardon him. He responded: "I believe I am kindly enough in nature, and can be moved to pity and to pardon the perpetrator of almost the worst crime that the mind of man can conceive or the arm of man can execute; but any man, who, for paltry gain and stimulated only by avarice, can rob Africa of her children to sell into interminable bondage, I never will pardon."
The man was executed by hanging.

 

[peteanddelmar]

Here is an article from the Continental Monthly of 1862:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18977/18977-h/18977-h.htm#THE_SLAVE-TRADE_IN_NEW_YORK

The 5th paragraph reads: "The city of New York has been until of late the principal port of the world for this infamous commerce" it also notes that slave dealers "contributed liberally to the treasuries of political organizations, and their bank accounts were largely depleted to carry elections in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Connecticut."

What changed "of late" was 'politics'.

In 1855 a ship captain was arrested and tried in New York for slave trading. President Buchanan pardoned him.

In 1861 a ship captain was arrested and tried in New York for slave trading. Lincoln was asked to pardon him. He responded: "I believe I am kindly enough in nature, and can be moved to pity and to pardon the perpetrator of almost the worst crime that the mind of man can conceive or the arm of man can execute; but any man, who, for paltry gain and stimulated only by avarice, can rob Africa of her children to sell into interminable bondage, I never will pardon."
The man was executed by hanging.

Wow. Lincoln hated slavery more than he let on, which was a lot!