Who Did Ireland Support?

[major bill]

It is common knowledge that the Irish in the North in generally favored the Union and the Irish in the South generally favored the Confederate. But how did the Civil War effect Irish Nationalists in Ireland?

It would appear that not Irish Nationalists at the beginning of the war favored the Union because the North had welcomed so many Irishmen there. This support for the Union began to slip and many Irish Nationalists began to favor the South. William smith O'Brien sent a letter digitizing him for helping the Union subject the South. O'Brien's sentiments were shared by John Martin. Many Irish Nationalists could not understand that many Irishmen in the North felt themselves as being loyal to the United States first and Irish independence second. This issue divided the Irish Nationalists with Daniel "The" O'Donoghue and P.J. Smyth supporting the Union.

 

[Pat Young]

I am going to bump this to see if anyone wants to respond.

 

[Northern Light]

I am curious to know what word was wanted when spellcheck came up with "digitized".

 

[Chattahooch33]

I think there could be a million sides to the story.

Some saw it as valuable training for their eventual war of independence against England.
Some saw the south more aligned with England and therefore their enemy by default.
Some saw it as a badly needed source of employment and gave little worry about any cause.
Some were drafted and gave little worry about any cause.
Some in the south saw it as a war against a aggressive, overbearing government much like England was to Ireland.

These are all just some thoughts I have and I have no evidence to back them up.

 

[Northern Light]

I think there could be a million sides to the story.

Some saw it as valuable training for their eventual war of independence against England.
Some saw the south more aligned with England and therefore their enemy by default.
Some saw it as a badly needed source of employment and gave little worry about any cause.
Some were drafted and gave little worry about any cause.
Some in the south saw it as a war against a aggressive, overbearing government much like England was to Ireland.

These are all just some thoughts I have and I have no evidence to back them up.

You are likely right in all these thought. Different Irishmen fought for different reasons, just as other soldiers fought for myriad reasons.

 

[Dominic Graziano]

I think there could be a million sides to the story.

Some saw it as valuable training for their eventual war of independence against England.
Some saw the south more aligned with England and therefore their enemy by default.
Some saw it as a badly needed source of employment and gave little worry about any cause.
Some were drafted and gave little worry about any cause.
Some in the south saw it as a war against a aggressive, overbearing government much like England was to Ireland.

These are all just some thoughts I have and I have no evidence to back them up.

I watched the Antietem episode of Civil War Combat (great early 2000's history channel series that goes in-depth with battles, narration is great/mildly hilarious; reenactments are a ball to watch) the other day, which went into great detail about Meagher, and basically said that he was so passionate about the war simply because he wanted the glory of leading his oppressed Irishmen to glory. He wanted to unite the Irish in America and show the nation how strong they were, along with the fact that he simply wanted to fight in glorious battle with his countrymen. His intense love for intense battle didn't stem from loyalty/sympathy to the north versus the south rather than his quest for battle glory with his fellow Irish.

Although on the flip side, three of his sons (and some other relatives of his I believe) headed South to fight for the Confederacy.

 

[John Hartwell]

Some Irish nationalists actually came to America just to enlist in order to get military training and combat experience they could use later against England. They generally went to the North simply because it was harder to get into the South after the war began. John Devoy, on the other hand, chose the French Foreign Legion for his training -- and spent his whole hitch doing not much of anything, earning no useful experience at all. After the war, a number of these (mostly officers) returned to Ireland in hopes of joining the Fenian uprising -- but that came to naught mostly before they even arrived, and the returnees were quickly rounded up by the British secret service, and deported back to America. Others joined the Fenian incursions into Canada.

"Ireland" had no one opinion at all. Some nationalists perceived southern rebellion against the Union as somehow similar to Irish rebellion against England. Others saw the plantation South as just another form of the hated Ascendancy (wealthy pro-British landlords in Ireland). Most, I think, had no strong commitment one way or the other. As in England, support for the Confederacy was strongest among the better-off friends of the "Establishment."

 

[Georgia Sixth]

I'm only familiar with the sympathies of one Irishman at the time, the famed author Oscar Wilde. He decidedly pulled for the South, as their struggle reminded him of Ireland's desire to be free of England. After the war, when Wilde made a tour of the U.S. as a now famous playwright, the one person he specifically wanted to meet -- and went out of his way to do so -- was Jefferson Davis.

 

[Pat Young]

I'm only familiar with the sympathies of one Irishman at the time, the famed author Oscar Wilde. He decidedly pulled for the South, as their struggle reminded him of Ireland's desire to be free of England. After the war, when Wilde made a tour of the U.S. as a now famous playwright, the one person he specifically wanted to meet -- and went out of his way to do so -- was Jefferson Davis.

Damian Shiels has posted some letters from an immigrant to his mother in Ireland in which she says the Southerners are only protecting their homes and he argues that they are destroying the great republic. So even within a family there were likely a variety of sentiments.

 

[sflickinger]

Damian Shiels has posted some letters from an immigrant to his mother in Ireland in which she says the Southerners are only protecting their homes and he argues that they are destroying the great republic. So even within a family there were likely a variety of sentiments.

It sure makes sense that where one lived would make a big difference. However, as we all know many northerner went south and vice versa. There seemed to be a good amount of ideology involved, although I can certainly see the Irish to an extent being pro-south due to their history of oppression.

 

[Dominic Graziano]

It sure makes sense that where one lived would make a big difference. However, as we all know many northerner went south and vice versa. There seemed to be a good amount of ideology involved, although I can certainly see the Irish to an extent being pro-south due to their history of oppression.

That's what always made logical sense to me. The South's situation within the United States in the mid 1800's seems ideologically similar to the Irish's, looking from that opressed point-of-view that I assume the Irish would be looking from.

 

[TinCan]

Pat,
How important do you think the quick path to citizenship offered to the Irish right off the boats if they joined the army, was in getting a large number of Irish to join the Union Army?

 

[Waterloo50]

It is common knowledge that the Irish in the North in generally favored the Union and the Irish in the South generally favored the Confederate. But how did the Civil War effect Irish Nationalists in Ireland?

It would appear that not Irish Nationalists at the beginning of the war favored the Union because the North had welcomed so many Irishmen there. This support for the Union began to slip and many Irish Nationalists began to favor the South. William smith O'Brien sent a letter digitizing him for helping the Union subject the South. O'Brien's sentiments were shared by John Martin. Many Irish Nationalists could not understand that many Irishmen in the North felt themselves as being loyal to the United States first and Irish independence second. This issue divided the Irish Nationalists with Daniel "The" O'Donoghue and P.J. Smyth supporting the Union.

Just a quick question about P.J Smyth, that was the name of my Great Grandfather who was born In Dublin. My Great Grandfather was a close friend of Dan Breen the author of 'My fight for Irish freedom'. in fact P.J Smyth was responsible for providing safe houses for members of the IRA and getting them safely to the USA. Its a long shot but I was wondering, is there any other information on P.J Smyth?

 

[John Hartwell]

Pat,
How important do you think the quick path to citizenship offered to the Irish right off the boats if they joined the army, was in getting a large number of Irish to join the Union Army?

I'm not Pat, but I'd suggest that a quick path to a job, right off the boat, was a bigger attraction. A great many Irish immigrants never bothered to apply for citizenship whether they served or not -- they were too busy just trying to survive. It was the first generation Irish-Americans who most benefited from their parents' struggles.

jno

 

[matthew mckeon]

Before the war, Frederick Douglass traveled and spoke in Ireland.

 

[irishamericancivilwar]

I'm not Pat, but I'd suggest that a quick path to a job, right off the boat, was a bigger attraction. A great many Irish immigrants never bothered to apply for citizenship whether they served or not -- they were too busy just trying to survive. It was the first generation Irish-Americans who most benefited from their parents' struggles.

jno

On this there is evidence that some Irishmen were travelling to the United States specifically to enlist. It is clear from a number of illegal recruitment arrests that this happened, and I have come across it a number of times in relation to pension files. It is my sense that there is a second spike in Irish recruitment from late 1863 into 64 as the financial rewards became more attractive, though this would be difficult to say with any certainty. It is certainly the case that a lot of the men I study in the pension files enlisted at this time.