Where was Meade During Pickett's Charge?

[infomanpa]

I know the answer....Power's Hill. So, why my question?

I understand that when the artillery barrage began on July 3, Meade moved his headquarters from the Leister House to Power's Hill for safety reasons. What I don't understand is why, once the charge began, he didn't oversee his troops. I would think that he would have wanted to be present during such a decisive action. For example, he would have been needed to direct reinforcements and coordinated other troop movements. It appears to me that Hancock played the role of the Army chief, as evidenced by him directing units of the First Corps (Stannard's Brigade). Did Meade give Hancock this authority? On the other side, Lee kept watch as his troops advanced on the Union lines.

 

[rpkennedy]

I know the answer....Power's Hill. So, why my question?

I understand that when the artillery barrage began on July 3, Meade moved his headquarters from the Leister House to Power's Hill for safety reasons. What I don't understand is why, once the charge began, he didn't oversee his troops. I would think that he would have wanted to be present during such a decisive action. For example, he would have been needed to direct reinforcements and coordinated other troop movements. It appears to me that Hancock played the role of the Army chief, as evidenced by him directing units of the First Corps (Stannard's Brigade). Did Meade give Hancock this authority? On the other side, Lee kept watch as his troops advanced on the Union lines.

During the later stages, Meade did observe the attack from Cemetery Hill. IIRC, Major Thomas Osborn, commander of the Eleventh Corps' artillery brigade, wrote about Meade being amongst his guns (including snapping at Osborn). Hancock was essentially playing the role of commander of the center of the army, including the remnants of the First and Third Corps which were playing a supporting role for his own Second Corps.

Ryan

 

[Tom Elmore]

Meade said he left Power's Hill (Bachelder Papers 1:379) as the artillery bombardment was drawing to a close, when he learned (from the Power's Hill signal officer) that the signalmen at the Leister cottage had departed, which deprived him of information. Evidently he was in no hurry to return (a mile or so ride that would take five minutes at a gallop), because he would not have been aware that the Confederate infantry was advancing. He even stopped along the way as he met some of his dismounted staff, including his son. No doubt he quickened his pace after he heard the heavy musketry firing and saw many of his own soldiers (the walking wounded?) moving to the rear. But by the time he arrived back on Cemetery Ridge (apparently near Ziegler's Grove since he spoke with Lt. Egan of Battery I, 1st U.S.), the charge at that point was spent and large numbers of prisoners were already moving to the rear. It might have not been clear whether they were prisoners or represented a breakthrough, since Meade had to inquire of Lt. Egan if the charge had been repulsed. At that time Meade must have gone to Cemetery Hill, where the guns were still firing on the retiring Confederates.

I suppose Meade could be faulted for not realizing the artillery bombardment presaged a major infantry assault, which in hindsight appears obvious. But then many things appear obvious after the fact.

 

[eBrowne]

Well in another thread, it was discussed whether Meade was on Cemetery Hill during the Cannonade. Osborn described a meeting with Meade at that time. However, Meade's recollection of the events does not place him at the Cemetery at that time. Pfanz states "Osborn, in his postwar writing, was careless with the identity of batteries and names of personnel and is not to be trusted in such matters." Although William Parmelee of Battery H, 1st Ohio places Meade in the Cemetery during the Cannonade/Charge and Gen. Hunt said that Meade went to the Cemetery, it is difficult to refute Meade. After the Charge, Meade rode up into the Cemetery. That seems well documented. In the other thread, I asked if anyone had documentation of Meade being in the Cemetery during the Cannonade. The only real response was Osborn's account.

 

[infomanpa]

On page 432 of Guelzo's "The Last Invasion," the author states that "Meade had no idea that Pickett's final attack had been repulsed." The account goes on to portray Meade as basically wondering around seeking answers until Gibbon's aide, Frank Haskell gave him some answers. "Meade was astonished" to find out that the enemy had been repulsed.

 

[Jimklag]

I know the answer....Power's Hill. So, why my question?

I understand that when the artillery barrage began on July 3, Meade moved his headquarters from the Leister House to Power's Hill for safety reasons. What I don't understand is why, once the charge began, he didn't oversee his troops. I would think that he would have wanted to be present during such a decisive action. For example, he would have been needed to direct reinforcements and coordinated other troop movements. It appears to me that Hancock played the role of the Army chief, as evidenced by him directing units of the First Corps (Stannard's Brigade). Did Meade give Hancock this authority? On the other side, Lee kept watch as his troops advanced on the Union lines.

I don't believe Meade explicitly authorized Hancock to act as his deputy, but Hancock did so on his own hook. There are numerous stories about the universal respect that officers in the AOP had for Hancock. He would have been obeyed by one and all in the heat of battle

 

[Jimklag]

I know the answer....Power's Hill. So, why my question?

I understand that when the artillery barrage began on July 3, Meade moved his headquarters from the Leister House to Power's Hill for safety reasons. What I don't understand is why, once the charge began, he didn't oversee his troops. I would think that he would have wanted to be present during such a decisive action. For example, he would have been needed to direct reinforcements and coordinated other troop movements. It appears to me that Hancock played the role of the Army chief, as evidenced by him directing units of the First Corps (Stannard's Brigade). Did Meade give Hancock this authority? On the other side, Lee kept watch as his troops advanced on the Union lines.

Not to change the subject, but do you know the precise timing of Hancock's wounding? And did Meade know he was wounded?

 

[rpkennedy]

On page 432 of Guelzo's "The Last Invasion," the author states that "Meade had no idea that Pickett's final attack had been repulsed." The account goes on to portray Meade as basically wondering around seeking answers until Gibbon's aide, Frank Haskell gave him some answers. "Meade was astonished" to find out that the enemy had been repulsed.

Guelzo is very much anti-Meade. His criticisms of the general have to taken with a grain of salt.

Ryan

 

[rpkennedy]

Not to change the subject, but do you know the precise timing of Hancock's wounding? And did Meade know he was wounded?

He was wounded as Stannard's Vermonters advanced in order to take Kemper's men in the flank.

Ryan

 

[civilken]

don't you just love it when individuals are questioning where the general was during the engagement. Especially when they use the point that gen lee was all over the place let's take a step back and look at the end results and general meade won the battle so apparently it was in the right spot at the right time. When you are in the position of overall command you should not be running around like a chicken with his head cut off you delegate the proper order to your staff and to your commanders. And in less your general sickles you follow them and when you don't your removed.

 

[infomanpa]

He was wounded as Stannard's Vermonters advanced in order to take Kemper's men in the flank.

Which brings up the question of why Hancock had the authority to call up First Corps units. Shouldn't he have gone through General Newton, the First Corps commander, assuming that he was present?

 

[Jimklag]

Which brings up the question of why Hancock had the authority to call up First Corps units. Shouldn't he have gone through General Newton, the First Corps commander, assuming that he was present?

Good question.

 

[rpkennedy]

Which brings up the question of why Hancock had the authority to call up First Corps units. Shouldn't he have gone through General Newton, the First Corps commander, assuming that he was present?

He didn't need to call up the First Corps units. They had been moved into position the previous day and hadn't left. He was simply commanding the troops in his sector of the line, regardless of whose corps they came from.

Ryan

 

[Gettysburg Greg]

I know the answer....Power's Hill. So, why my question?

I understand that when the artillery barrage began on July 3, Meade moved his headquarters from the Leister House to Power's Hill for safety reasons. What I don't understand is why, once the charge began, he didn't oversee his troops. I would think that he would have wanted to be present during such a decisive action. For example, he would have been needed to direct reinforcements and coordinated other troop movements. It appears to me that Hancock played the role of the Army chief, as evidenced by him directing units of the First Corps (Stannard's Brigade). Did Meade give Hancock this authority? On the other side, Lee kept watch as his troops advanced on the Union lines.

As I understand it, he was at the Leister house when the bombardment began, then moved to Powers Hill. I, too, have read that he was surprised to discover that the attack had been repulsed. So, I was surprised to find this inscription on the 146th NY monument located on the north shelf of LRT that claims Meade "observed the battle for a time on July 3rd". Since the battle that day was Pickett's Charge I asked a LBG if Meade was actually up there at any time during the charge and was told the inscription refers to his visit to this location earlier in the day. Here's a pic I took of the monument.

 

[Tom Elmore]

It seems Meade rode to Little Round Top late in the day, but was it on July 3 or July 4? Meade was also east of the Trostle buildings at dusk on July 2.

Cheers from Federal soldiers along the way reached the Confederate lines on Seminary Ridge, which came to the attention of General Robert E. Lee, who is quoted as saying, "I can understand what they have to cheer for." This quote also appears in Stephen Sears' book, p. 458 - can anyone pinpoint the date and who recorded the quote?

-General Meade and staff at the close of the conflict rode along the line with head uncovered, and thanked the troops for their bravery and devotion. (Josiah J. Brown, 2nd New Jersey)

-Late in the afternoon, Meade came riding along the lines. (Diary of Edmund Halsey, 15 New Jersey). This appears as an entry on July 4. Perhaps so, but heavy rains arrived after noon on July 4.

-Gen. Meade and all his staff generals came to the position occupied by our regiment to view the battlefield. (Lt. Col. David Jenkins, 146 NY, Bachelder Papers, 1:74)

 

[infomanpa]

As I understand it, he was at the Leister house when the bombardment began, then moved to Powers Hill. I, too, have read that he was surprised to discover that the attack had been repulsed. So, I was surprised to find this inscription on the 146th NY monument located on the north shelf of LRT that claims Meade "observed the battle for a time on July 3rd". Since the battle that day was Pickett's Charge I asked a LBG if Meade was actually up there at any time during the charge and was told the inscription refers to his visit to this location earlier in the day. Here's a pic I took of the monument.
View attachment 128574

Thanks, Greg. I've been to that monument and never saw that inscription. I certainly would have found it most curious, because even if Meade had been there on July 3, I would never had thought that he "observed the battle" from that point on that day.

 

[Andy Cardinal]

As I understand it, he was at the Leister house when the bombardment began, then moved to Powers Hill. I, too, have read that he was surprised to discover that the attack had been repulsed. So, I was surprised to find this inscription on the 146th NY monument located on the north shelf of LRT that claims Meade "observed the battle for a time on July 3rd". Since the battle that day was Pickett's Charge I asked a LBG if Meade was actually up there at any time during the charge and was told the inscription refers to his visit to this location earlier in the day. Here's a pic I took of the monument.
View attachment 128574

Meade was on Little Round Top after the repulse to discuss a counterattack. He was there with Sykes, Sedgwick, & Crawford I believe.

 

[Jimklag]

Meade was on Little Round Top after the repulse to discuss a counterattack. He was there with Sykes, Sedgwick, & Crawford I believe.

I knew about this meeting but I either forgot or never knew it was at Little Round Top. Thanks.

 

[MBuehner]

First we should ask- should the commander of the AotP have been overseeing the middle of his line?

Probably not, the generals on the scene demonstrably had the situation well in hand. Meades presence would not likely have been welcome (at least silently). Moreover, there was a major cavalry battle taking place, Ewell was still a threat to Culps Hill, and one never knew if Lee had any more tricks up his sleeve. Hancock has things in hand, it was not Meades job to be there.

Speaking of Lee, he wasn't overseeing the assault on his side either, where the disfuction of his corp commanders actually did lead to trouble. It just wasn't the job of the army commander.

 

[Andy Cardinal]

First we should ask- should the commander of the AotP have been overseeing the middle of his line?

I agree that the commanding general's place is not at the front line. There are times when it might be necessary, but throughout the war it was pretty rare. As a contrast, Reynolds as wing commander has been criticized for being too close to the front line.

I actually believe Meade was more involved in the fighting than would be usual for an army commander, especially on July 2. Part of that was he was only 5 days into the job. He was very actively engaged in the battle.