When to call in engineers

[Bentonville]

I was looking at a thread a few weeks ago about the troops present as Meridian, MS surrender. I noticed there was an engineer unit. It got me to thinking about at what point with fortifications being hastily thrown up would one, hypothetically, call in the engineers to make them 'fixed'?

 

[Biscoitos]

I was looking at a thread a few weeks ago about the troops present as Meridian, MS surrender. I noticed there was an engineer unit. It got me to thinking about at what point with fortifications being hastily thrown up would one, hypothetically, call in the engineers to make them 'fixed'?

Where possible, as in Vicksburg and other places, Engineers were not called in, but involved with fortifications from the beginning, or "from the ground up."
Pardon the joke.
Engineers and engineer units were used in building bridges and similar construction projects, as well.
Hastily thrown up fortifications were generally done, well, hastily, by soldiers shoveling dirt, laying fence rails and whatever materials they could find.
Engineers might have been more likely to point out exactly where the works were to be placed, if haste was needed.

 

[jackt62]

I read a book entitled "Engineering in the Confederate Heartland," by Larry Daniel. He describes major efforts that engineering officers in the AoT contributed in laying out and designing fortified lines, particularly during Johnston's fallback positions during the Georgia campaign.

 

[major bill]

Engineers units were not expected to construct large defensive works on their own. Much of the construction was accomplished by regular soldiers. At best the engineer unit might help construct artillery positions. Even then regular soldiers would do most the digging.

 

[Bentonville]

Where possible, as in Vicksburg and other places, Engineers were not called in, but involved with fortifications from the beginning, or "from the ground up."
Pardon the joke.
Engineers and engineer units were used in building bridges and similar construction projects, as well.
Hastily thrown up fortifications were generally done, well, hastily, by soldiers shoveling dirt, laying fence rails and whatever materials they could find.
Engineers might have been more likely to point out exactly where the works were to be placed, if haste was needed.

You answered my question perfectly.

 

[1SGDan]

Engineer officers generally supervised detailed infantry soldiers in digging proper fortifications while engineer soldiers tended to the more technical work of constructing the firing platforms for artillery positions, mantlets to provide cover when the guns were not in use, bombproof shelters for men and ammunition and the necessary implements, mainly fascines, gabions, and Hurdles (or woven mats) to secure the sidewalls of the excavations against erosion. They also constructed counter mobility obstacles like Chevaux-de-frise, abatis, and fraise.

 

[thomas aagaard]

Should be noted that the engineering corps was basically only made up of officers prewar and was tiny.

Pioneer units where organized, but there where never sufficient numbers of them or the engineering officers.
(and it did not help that plenty of officers who had served as engineers ended up in command of larger combat formations)

So the norm was for the engineers to mark out the fortified lines and if close to the enemy for the infantry to do the actual work.
and when talking more permanent fortifications, civilians where often used.
(including free colored men for the union and slaves for the csa)

 

[Dan Kohli]

It's amazing what the engineers, pioneers, and working parties could do during the war.

The engineer troops were more for special jobs such as; mining, saping and building pontoon bridges and a few other things. The officers designed fortifications and made topographic maps in addition to supervising the enlisted personnel of the corps. It appears that they acted on a strategic level in addition whatever duties they had within the army or military department they were attached too.

 

[Stryker65]

However, in Lee's army, for instance, his two engineer regiments were formed from mechanics and civilian engineers originally exempted from the regular draft. His engineers were very experienced, having served similar purposes with building things as civilians.

 

[Biscoitos]

However, in Lee's army, for instance, his two engineer regiments were formed from mechanics and civilian engineers originally exempted from the regular draft. His engineers were very experienced, having served similar purposes with building things as civilians.

Were not some of his engineers West Point graduates?
In the West, some of the engineers were, and had pre war experience as well as education.

 

[Stryker65]

Were not some of his engineers West Point graduates?
In the West, some of the engineers were, and had pre war experience as well as education.

That as well, but I'm saying that the enlisted men in the engineer regiments had real-life experience. Although I suppose their mechanic skills came more handy with fixing carriages and similar things...

 

[52ndFandS]

Were not some of his engineers West Point graduates?
In the West, some of the engineers were, and had pre war experience as well as education.

I could swear that officers graduated the Academy as Military Engineers.

 

[Lampasas Bill]

Academy graduates were assigned according to their class standing. Those at the top of their class became military engineers. Next below them were assigned to artillery, then cavalry, and last of all, infantry. At least that's the way I remember it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Lampasas Bill]

In later years, the veterans of the 1st Missouri Engineers, who built bridges and laid pontoons for Sherman's campaign from Atlanta on, liked to brag that they were the boys that made the torches that burned Columbia, South Carolina!

 

[52ndFandS]

Academy graduates were assigned according to their class standing. Those at the top of their class became military engineers. Next below them were assigned to artillery, then cavalry, and last of all, infantry. At least that's the way I remember it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe you're right. I meant that engineering was stressed there.

 

[Biscoitos]

I could swear that officers graduated the Academy as Military Engineers.

I wonder which Confederate engineers were West point graduates.

 

[1SGDan]

I could swear that officers graduated the Academy as Military Engineers.

Generally only the top ranked cadets were assigned to the corps of engineers

 

[Stryker65]

I wonder which Confederate engineers were West point graduates.

According to the US Army Register for 1861, the following officers (later Confederate) were part of the US Corps of Engineers or the US Corps of Topographical Engineers:
- Capt./Bvt. Maj. "Peter" G. T. Beauregard
- Capt. Jeremy F. Gilmer
- Capt. William H. C. Whiting
- Capt. Francis T. Bryan
- Lt. Walter H. Stevens
- Lt. George W. C. Lee
- 2nd Lt. Richard K. Meade, Jr.
- Bvt. 2nd Lt. Samuel H. Lockett
- Bvt. 2nd Lt. William P. Smith
- Bvt. 2nd Lt. Joseph Dixon
- Bvt. 2nd Lt. William H. Echols
- Bvt. 2nd Lt. Robert F. Beckham

Of these, all were West Point graduates.

 

[jackt62]

Academy graduates were assigned according to their class standing. Those at the top of their class became military engineers. Next below them were assigned to artillery, then cavalry, and last of all, infantry. At least that's the way I remember it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Assignment to the engineers was desirable because it usually meant postings to more favorable locations. In contrast to the infantry, which were heavily concentrated in remote, lonely, and primitive garrisons in the west, engineering officers would likely be found along the eastern seaboard constructing forts and lighthouses or in the midwest's riverine network, which involved infrastructure improvements. Lee for example, spent his engineering career in places like St. Louis and New York City, certainly more attractive postings than some fly blown post in the desert southwest.

 

[Stryker65]

Assignment to the engineers was desirable because it usually meant postings to more favorable locations. In contrast to the infantry, which were heavily concentrated in remote, lonely, and primitive garrisons in the west, engineering officers would likely be found along the eastern seaboard constructing forts and lighthouses or in the midwest's riverine network, which involved infrastructure improvements. Lee for example, spent his engineering career in places like St. Louis and New York City, certainly more attractive postings than some fly blown post in the desert southwest.

Compared, say, to Grant, deployed in California, who became depressed and started drinking.