When did the civil war really start/end?

[atlantis]

Was the start really Ft. Sumter or J. Browns raid on harper's ferry or the fighting in Kansas.
When did the conflict really end? I am not talking about the federal gov't declaration of end of rebellion. Do we consider the real end, the end of combat operations or is it the end of reconstruction or even the end of Jim crow laws.

 

[Berry Canote]

Interesting questions, and ones for which I do not think there are any answers. If you think the conflict began when tensions between the North and South began to rise you would have to go back to before the Missouri Compromise in 1820. If you think the conflict began with the first acts of violence on a regular basis, well, then I would say the Wakarusa War in Kansas in 1855 marks the beginning. And then of course you have the obvious starting point, Fort Sumter. As for the end point... that is even trickier. To me, I think you would have to say it was the end of combat operations. I say that for several reasons: 1) The reason for the conflict, slavery, had been removed. 2) The ability of the South to resist the North had been broken. 3) Within a year or two of the war the seats of Southern states in Congress had been filled with men whose thinking was in line with the North. Now those reasons are not to say the conflict had truly ended, merely to say that the South's ability to effectively fight back, either through combat or politically had been removed. If you are looking for an endpoint to the conflict,well, it may still be going on given what sometimes seems like a vast cultural divide between the North and South.

 

[civilken]

I think it started with John Brown but it ended after the repeal of the Jim Crow laws they were some of the most hateful things past and it was a disgrace for all Americans to allow that to happen. I cannot honestly understand how someone can speak of America and freedom and look at those laws and not have their stomach turn.

 

[The Confederate]

Honestly, I don't see how the Civil War started before Fort Sumter, nor do I see how the Civil War ended after Appomattox.

 

[Bee]

As ruled in United States v. Anderson 76 US [9 Wall] 56. The official end of the Civil was was ruled as 20 August, 1866:

The Court of Claims assumed jurisdiction of cases under the Abandoned Property Act, and between the termination of actual hostilities and the date fixed by the court below as the legal suppression of the rebellion (20 August, 1866), thirty causes were commenced in that court under the act and jurisdiction of them entertained. In this Court, the causes pending at the beginning of the war to which inhabitants of the states in rebellion were parties and which had been suspended and postponed from term to term during the continuance of the war were, at the December Term 1865, by the order of the Court, called and heard in their order on the calendar or on special days to which they were assigned. Post Offices were reopened, the letting of contracts for mail service throughout the rebellious states resumed, and the revenue system extended throughout the same states. The federal courts, too, were reopened in the insurrectionary districts. But notwithstanding all this, the late rebellious states were to increase the pay of soldiers in the army should be 'continued in full force and effect for three years after the close of the rebellion, as announced by the President of the United States by proclamation bearing date August 20, 1866.' " [76 US 56, 58-60]

Full case study: https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2016/03/15/united-states-v-anderson/​

 

[leftyhunter]

Honestly, I don't see how the Civil War started before Fort Sumter, nor do I see how the Civil War ended after Appomattox.

Bleeding Kansas?
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

Was the start really Ft. Sumter or J. Browns raid on harper's ferry or the fighting in Kansas.
When did the conflict really end? I am not talking about the federal gov't declaration of end of rebellion. Do we consider the real end, the end of combat operations or is it the end of reconstruction or even the end of Jim crow laws.

While their was certainly post Civil War fighting between various Democratic Party paramilitaries such as the KKK, Knights of the White Camilia, the Red Shirts vs blacks, Unionists and state militias especially in Arkansas it's not the same as the Civil War. The Democratic Party paramilitaries were fighting to preserve **** and Democratic Party hemogny in the Southern states. In this they brilliantly succeed for over 100 years.
On the other hand former Unionists did indeed fight back I have a thread on that in the Reconstruction Forum. Eventually the Democratic Party paramilitaries in some areas stayed away from the Unionists.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

Was the start really Ft. Sumter or J. Browns raid on harper's ferry or the fighting in Kansas.
When did the conflict really end? I am not talking about the federal gov't declaration of end of rebellion. Do we consider the real end, the end of combat operations or is it the end of reconstruction or even the end of Jim crow laws.

The Democratic Party paramilitaries were unlike the Confederates not fighting to establish an independent nation.
Leftyhunter

 

[John Winn]

We've debated this a number of times since I've been a member but I'll repeat my opinion.

I think the political was surpassed by actual armed conflict after the Kansas-Nebraska Act (1854) and, because there was still military occupation, that warfare didn't end until the end of reconstruction (i.e. 1876). Of course the roots of the conflict predate the Kansas-Nebraska Act and the effects of the conflict still exist to some degree but we could say that about a lot of things. So when I think of the Civil War era (as opposed to the actual war) I consider it 1854-1876. As far as the actual war (which I differentiate a tad from 'warfare'), I think of it as April, 1861 to June, 1865.

Look at WWII in Europe. Did that begin with Hitler or was it an extension of WWI ? And did it end with Germany surrendering or with occupying troops leaving ? And when did they really leave ? Answers to all those questions get messy real quick. Our Civil War is the same. There's no definite answers. One just forms an opinion that agrees with one's assessments and personal thoughts.

 

[civilken]

Honestly, I don't see how the Civil War started before Fort Sumter, nor do I see how the Civil War ended after Appomattox.

I agree with you ..there is a lot more to the story than Fort Sumter and Appomattox..

 

[SilasConn]

I don't believe that any war/conflict/police action/etc. has any definitive beginning or ending. People don't wake up one morning and out of the blue decide to invade their neighbor. Nor does one day come where they wake up and say, we're done and bygones will be bygones. Pressure builds, is relieved, builds some more, someone does something to start the shooting and one side eventually gives up, but neither side forgets. If there's enough to restart hostilities, it will.

A series of wars in Europe in the 19th century eventually led to World War I which led to World War II. During the reunification of Germany, there were plenty of nervous people wondering how that would end. One could argue that the ACW began when the first slave was brought to the colonies, or when the northern states became more industrialized and the south more agrarian. And one could argue that divisions between parts of the country are rooted in political divisions going back to the ACW, or not.

As civilken said, there's a lot more to the story...

 

[Hunter]

Honestly, I don't see how the Civil War started before Fort Sumter, nor do I see how the Civil War ended after Appomattox.

Lee surrendered only his army at Appomattox, but others did not until later.

 

[SouthernYankee]

Was the start really Ft. Sumter or J. Browns raid on harper's ferry or the fighting in Kansas.
When did the conflict really end? I am not talking about the federal gov't declaration of end of rebellion. Do we consider the real end, the end of combat operations or is it the end of reconstruction or even the end of Jim crow laws.

Depending on how far back you want to go, I think that you could trace the seeds of the Civil War all the way back to the ideological differences between the Puritans who settled in the Northeast and the Anglicans who settled most of the south. Puritan abolitionists were advocating an end to slavery as far back as the late 1600s.

But for a more contemporary date, my opinion is that the war effort began on Nov. 9th, 1860, when the General Assembly of South Carolina passed a resolution known as "The Resolution to call the election of Abraham Lincoln a hostile act" and stated in no uncertain terms that South Carolina would seceded from the union.

This began the secession crisis that would ultimately lead to a military conflict between the two sides.

 

[Exilemainstreet]

As ruled in United States v. Anderson 76 US [9 Wall] 56. The official end of the Civil was was ruled as 20 August, 1866:

The Court of Claims assumed jurisdiction of cases under the Abandoned Property Act, and between the termination of actual hostilities and the date fixed by the court below as the legal suppression of the rebellion (20 August, 1866), thirty causes were commenced in that court under the act and jurisdiction of them entertained. In this Court, the causes pending at the beginning of the war to which inhabitants of the states in rebellion were parties and which had been suspended and postponed from term to term during the continuance of the war were, at the December Term 1865, by the order of the Court, called and heard in their order on the calendar or on special days to which they were assigned. Post Offices were reopened, the letting of contracts for mail service throughout the rebellious states resumed, and the revenue system extended throughout the same states. The federal courts, too, were reopened in the insurrectionary districts. But notwithstanding all this, the late rebellious states were to increase the pay of soldiers in the army should be 'continued in full force and effect for three years after the close of the rebellion, as announced by the President of the United States by proclamation bearing date August 20, 1866.' " [76 US 56, 58-60]

Full case study: https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2016/03/15/united-states-v-anderson/​

The "judicial end" of the CW.