What's a 'croaker'?

[Bruce Vail]

Gen. Robt. E. Lee is said to have complained that Gen. D.H. Hill was a 'croaker'. Taken from contect, I am guessing this means that a croaker was a chronic complainer, and/or a defeatest who lacked confidence that the Confederacy could win.

What is the correct understanding of the term in the context 1862-1863?

If D.H. Hill was a croaker, what other Confederate leaders were also croakers?

Was there such a thing as a Union croaker?

Your thoughts, please?

 

[Kurt G]

A person who grumbles or forbodes evil;also a bellyacher , complainer , curmudgeon , fusser , griper , grouch , grouser , sourpuss , whiner or crosspatch .
On the Confederate side you've got to go with "Grumble" Jones .

 

[Robin Lesjovitch]

A person who grumbles or forbodes evil;also a bellyacher , complainer , curmudgeon , fusser , griper , grouch , grouser , sourpuss , whiner or crosspatch .
On the Confederate side you've got to go with "Grumble" Jones .

In Hill's case I think Lee meant "whiner".

 

[captaindrew]

According the this source it meant a pessimist https://archive.org/stream/War_Slang/War_Slang_djvu.txt I remember John Wayne in Horse Soldier always called the surgeon "croaker" and he in turn called Wayne "field hand".

 

[Ole Miss]

D.H. Hill was a real man; he whined, whimpered, moaned, mewled and cried he was sick! And was looking for his Mama
Regards
David

 

[Pollaco]

So if you "tell it like it is" and don't go around with a phony smile you're a croacker or complainer?

 

[Waterloo50]

In Britain a croaker would mean someone that's close to death, it's still used today, if someone dies we say 'he croaked it'.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

According the this source it meant a pessimist

I wonder if there is a connection between "croaker" and "croaked" (died)? Someone who frequently thinks "we're all gonna die!" would certainly classify as a pessimist.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

So if you "tell it like it is" and don't go around with a phony smile you're a croacker or complainer?

Always with the negative waves, Moriarty! Always with the negative waves!

 

[CSA Today]

Around here it's a fish.

 

[Waterloo50]

Always with the negative waves, Moriarty! Always with the negative waves!

Yeah, Definitely an antisocial type. Woof, woof, woof!

 

[Bruce Vail]

D.H. Hill was a real man; he whined, whimpered, moaned, mewled and cried he was sick! And was looking for his Mama
Regards
David

Just read a sympathetic bio of Harvery Hill. The author's efforts to make him sympathetic were not entirely succesful...

 

[Mk VII]

As late as WW1 it was still being used in the sense of 'defeatist, pessimist' in England.

 

[Bruce Vail]

So if you "tell it like it is" and don't go around with a phony smile you're a croacker or complainer?

When you get to be my age your memory sometimes loses its staying power. The great Gary Gallagher wrote this in his 1991 introduction to the DH Hill bio Lee's Maverick General:

"...(Gen.) Bragg averred that his frequent "croaking" harmed morale. The Oxford English Dictionary offers a nineteenth-centry definition of croaking: "to speak in dismal accents, talk despondingly, forbode evil (like the raven)." Beyond question, Harvey Hill stood guilty of croaking not only during his time with Bragg and the Army of Tennessee, but throughout the rest of his Confederate career....The cumulative effect of such gloomy letters, together with oral statements of a similar nature, led civilians and fellow officers to dismiss even Hill's valid criticisms as nothing more than tedious carping."

 

[bankerpapaw]

A person who grumbles or forbodes evil;also a bellyacher , complainer , curmudgeon , fusser , griper , grouch , grouser , sourpuss , whiner or crosspatch .
On the Confederate side you've got to go with "Grumble" Jones .

I believe you about covered it. LOL

 

[J. Hanger]

According the this source it meant a pessimist https://archive.org/stream/War_Slang/War_Slang_djvu.txt I remember John Wayne in Horse Soldier always called the surgeon "croaker" and he in turn called Wayne "field hand".

I think that Holden called Wayne a "section hand" because he was a "railroader" before the war.
J

 

[captaindrew]

I think that Holden called Wayne a "section hand" because he was a "railroader" before the war.
J

You're right, I messed that up

 

[lelliott19]

D.H. Hill was a real man; he whined, whimpered, moaned, mewled and cried he was sick! And was looking for his Mama
Regards
David

Hey now! There's a <really small> D H Hill Fan Club here and we don't take kindly to folks disparaging our... hero person we named the Fan Club for "croaker." @Bruce Vail is a member of the club! and he started the thread!
@OldReliable1862 @luinrina @Nathanb1 @BillO @RochesterBill @Stony @Sbc @Polloco @dhh712 @Lubliner

 

[Lubliner]

How about 'fatalist' with a voiced belief in Murphy's Law. A driveller and sniveller that despises what he cannot get enough of.
Lubliner.

 

[Bruce Vail]

Hey now! There's a <really small> D H Hill Fan Club here and we don't take kindly to folks disparaging our... hero person we named the Fan Club for "croaker." @Bruce Vail is a member of the club! and he started the thread!
@OldReliable1862 @luinrina @Nathanb1 @BillO @RochesterBill @Stony @Sbc @Polloco @dhh712 @Lubliner

I'd be in favor of officially naming the club something like the 'Confederate Croaker Society' to increase our potential membership and to add an air of whimsy. (smile)